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Holy Grail War (Version 2)

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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Reverend » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:26 pm

Hmm an idea for Caster:

Once per game, Caster gets to see the voting result, and change 20% of the vote on that round as it likes, rounded up. During the round in which Caster uses its ability, its identity is revealed to everyone of its enemies.

Also, Caster cannot use its ability on round 1. And, most importantly, Caster will have to notify you the round before.

or if you still fear inbalance, just make Caster name the round it wants to tweak around at the start of the game. But the reveal still has to happen on the specific round Caster had chosen. Else it'd get killed. Though I rather have Caster the freedom of will to choose when at any time it wants.


ps.: oh yeah, if it dies before it uses its ability, then as usual the counter goes down to zero. So, a Saver cannot give Caster a second chance to use its ability.
Also if Archer seals its ability precisely at that current round, then the ability is counted as failed, and is lost, forever.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Toady » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:21 pm

Reverend wrote:
RailWarrior wrote:
Reverend wrote:What's the point of revive if you can't choose who are you reviving? Same with revenge.

...Did you read the ability description?

What? The after 5th round thing?

It's before 5th round! So you're free to change when you want, but you already save an ally by default, maybe not the most useful one.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby RailWarrior » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:44 pm

Reverend wrote:Once per game, Caster gets to see the voting result, and change 20% of the vote on that round as it likes, rounded up. During the round in which Caster uses its ability, its identity is revealed to everyone of its enemies.

The problem with this, and with Woody's suggestion for Saver and Avenger, is that the instant the ability is activated, the opposing team pretty much wins. Why? Just send a PM to everyone with the following question: "Who is Caster (of Red/Black)?" Your allies will be able to answer.


I also don't like so much randomness, but I don't see a better way to be fair. If I allow situations where everyone, without a doubt, knows the identity of a player, the first team who is able to establish a relay (for example, thanks to Ruler) gets an unfair advantage.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby WankoMC » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:02 pm

RailWarrior wrote:
Reverend wrote:Once per game, Caster gets to see the voting result, and change 20% of the vote on that round as it likes, rounded up. During the round in which Caster uses its ability, its identity is revealed to everyone of its enemies.

The problem with this, and with Woody's suggestion for Saver and Avenger, is that the instant the ability is activated, the opposing team pretty much wins. Why? Just send a PM to everyone with the following question: "Who is Caster (of Red/Black)?" Your allies will be able to answer.


I also don't like so much randomness, but I don't see a better way to be fair. If I allow situations where everyone, without a doubt, knows the identity of a player, the first team who is able to establish a relay (for example, thanks to Ruler) gets an unfair advantage.

You got something wrong here, at least about my suggestions. When i said identity, i meant the fact that red/black team has a saver/avenger is revealed (based on what you answered to Momo). So it would be something like this.

Black team:
Woody the black lancer died
Revie the saver PM GM and activate his ability to revive Woody

Railwarrior made a public notice: Saver of Black just activated his ability this round, 6 more hours are added to the round.

Red team does not know who is saver, but is able to deduce him if most of other member of Black are revealed. That's why, saver now can no longer risk to wait until a useful member die. This adds more strategy than the old one and less randomness than the current one.

Same as avenger, he cannot wait until a useful member of the opposing team is revealed, but has to choose the proper time to act before the risk of being countered get any higher.

Also, dont forget that the berserker ability as it is now can also counter this saver (even though it's random). The berserker gains nothing this way since he is still alive, but the ally of opposing team can no longer be revived.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby RailWarrior » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:12 pm

shadowhunter wrote:Playing too, and will pray to get something except Caster and Rider since they are still useless.
You're underestimating Caster and Rider. They're the only classes who can reveal themselves to an ally.

Reverend wrote:Oh yeah I forgot to ask: what happens if a Berserker uses his ability on a Saver/Avenger? Nothing? Or the ability is gone bcs it's like using Revive on an alive person?

Saver's ability is not to "revive" a player. His ability is to "declare the name of a player." If Berserker were to target Saver, and Saver did not use his once-per-game declaration yet, Saver must declare Berserker. If Saver has already used it, nothing happens since there's no ability to activate.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Reverend » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:54 pm

RailWarrior wrote:
Reverend wrote:Once per game, Caster gets to see the voting result, and change 20% of the vote on that round as it likes, rounded up. During the round in which Caster uses its ability, its identity is revealed to everyone of its enemies.

The problem with this, and with Woody's suggestion for Saver and Avenger, is that the instant the ability is activated, the opposing team pretty much wins. Why? Just send a PM to everyone with the following question: "Who is Caster (of Red/Black)?" Your allies will be able to answer.


I also don't like so much randomness, but I don't see a better way to be fair. If I allow situations where everyone, without a doubt, knows the identity of a player, the first team who is able to establish a relay (for example, thanks to Ruler) gets an unfair advantage.

Well, then, tell everyone. :P

I am actually fine with the case you mentioned, bcs I don't want some baka to use it early round and get 3 extra votes at least easily. I also said I prefer to let Caster to choose its own timing freely without any restriction, don't I? Well, it's bcs of this reason. What I had in mind was an end game, a "2 goals in the last minute", a do-it-right-or-everyone-be-dead ability, after all. I want people to actually think properly and more careful of when to use their role's ability, and how, beside of thinking who is who.

But since you're worried about the after-part. then tell Caster's identity to everyone, instead. Do note that this way, it's pretty unbalance.

RailWarrior wrote:
Reverend wrote:Oh yeah I forgot to ask: what happens if a Berserker uses his ability on a Saver/Avenger? Nothing? Or the ability is gone bcs it's like using Revive on an alive person?

Saver's ability is not to "revive" a player. His ability is to "declare the name of a player." If Berserker were to target Saver, and Saver did not use his once-per-game declaration yet, Saver must declare Berserker. If Saver has already used it, nothing happens since there's no ability to activate.

oh so in other words, Berserker can steal opponent's Saver power to himself? What a very Chibahax thing.
Okay, then. Saver has just turned significantly weaker I might just kill my own team's Saver early to save potential trouble, but at least this will be very fun to watch should it happens. I'm in.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby shadowhunter » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:56 pm

Teamkill is real?
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Kiwigiwi » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:00 pm

Reverend wrote:oh so in other words, Berserker can steal opponent's Saver power to himself? What a very Chibahax thing.
Okay, then. Saver has just turned significantly weaker I might just kill my own team's Saver early to save potential trouble, but at least this will be very fun to watch should it happens. I'm in.


Ironic how you've been complaining non-stop about how Saver's ability is now "useless", but then you state that berserker being able to force Saver to declare him and potentially revive him if he dies is hax.

If Saver's ability is that useless, then it shouldn't matter if berserker was able to force Saver to declare him, no?

Or are you just desperately looking for something to complain about?
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Chibasa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:51 pm

shadowhunter wrote:Teamkill is real?


I guess we already had one *cough*
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby houreki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:18 pm

I'm in for the next game!
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Homura » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:36 pm

I'll also play it.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby ezethan97 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:44 pm

I'll play again. Hopefully, I can actually use my ability this time.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Chibasa » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:50 pm

ezethan97 wrote:I'll play again. Hopefully, I can actually use my ability this time.


EX-PLOOOO-SION !
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby RailWarrior » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:09 am

shadowhunter wrote:P. S. Self-shielding is banned?

How about this?
If Shielder successfully defends another player from Assassin, he receives one counter. By using a counter, Shielder may choose to defend himself for the round. The maximum number of counters Shielder may have at any point is one.


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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Reverend » Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:57 am

Kiwigiwi wrote:
Reverend wrote:oh so in other words, Berserker can steal opponent's Saver power to himself? What a very Chibahax thing.
Okay, then. Saver has just turned significantly weaker I might just kill my own team's Saver early to save potential trouble, but at least this will be very fun to watch should it happens. I'm in.


Ironic how you've been complaining non-stop about how Saver's ability is now "useless", but then you state that berserker being able to force Saver to declare him and potentially revive him if he dies is hax.

If Saver's ability is that useless, then it shouldn't matter if berserker was able to force Saver to declare him, no?

Or are you just desperately looking for something to complain about?

- Nah, as Toady pointed out, I misread the word "before" into "after" instead.
- that doesn't change Saver's and Avenger's identity are the people whose identity will get leaked first.
- Bcs I misread "before" into "after", I thought "then they wouldn't have a chance to use their ability, at all."
- Since it's "before", then the chance to use it is now bigger, though that doesn't change the fact that if there's any leak before the first voting round, it's guaranteed to be either Saver or Avenger.

A revive is always powerful on first sight. But what I had been saying was that you guys overrated it. Like: example: Chibasa stated something like "What if Revive is used on (the old) Berserker?" Well, then, the opponent can just avoid Berserker for later. And if Berserker never dies, who needs Saver?
Same logic can be applied to any role. But the more a team decide not to kill, the more they risk getting caught. So it's about knowing when and where to use each ability, and how the opponent will response, which is fun to think about (and also something that I lost the moment Chibahax spoiled everything.)

The Berserker stealing thing? Ah gomen I am just excited to see such a hax turn of event such as making your opponent use a support ability on you.

The current Revive... I still find the "pick an unknown number that represents a friend" to be against the whole reason why humanity ever created the concept of Revive in the first place. So it's not like I'm out of stuff to "complain". (But at least I can still change it before dying.)

ps.: btw, kiwi why are you looking for something to fight about? I even went as far as flee the last bout before it even begun, so that the thread could stay true to its discussion. Apart from the "salty" thing, I never attacked a person. I just said what happened, and what I think about why it happened. Same thing with this thing you call a "complain". But now once again I shall say, why are you getting salty? -_-

Edit: btw, Rail, you forgot to put Woody's name on.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2) (Sign Up)

Postby Kiwigiwi » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:39 am

I was simply defending the nerf on Saver that you keep complaining about.

Saver's ability was extremely useful and still is extremely useful. But it had zero drawbacks for using the ability in the first version, unlike every other class. Rail has given Saver a weakness now, which I think was a good move. This game is all about classes countering other classes. Berserker counters Saver, Saver counters Avenger etc.

Also, I'm pretty sure the one who is getting salty is you; seeing as every single post you've posted on this thread has been dedicated to complaining about Saver and being extremely passive aggressive. There was no reason to say "nerve Saver because people hate me".
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2) (Sign Up)

Postby Corni » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:53 am

I will join this time
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2) (Sign Up)

Postby Reverend » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:51 pm

Kiwigiwi wrote:Also, I'm pretty sure the one who is getting salty is you; seeing as every single post you've posted on this thread has been dedicated to complaining about Saver and being extremely passive aggressive. There was no reason to say "nerve Saver because people hate me".

Actually, I was planning to do the same for Avenger after Saver is done. But I've lost my mood thanks to you, who only now (only after I lost my mood) finally replied something that really has things to do with Saver.

oh so you treated that seriously? oh gomen.
nah, it's a joke, the "people hate me" thing. I don't care, tbh, else I wouldn't have gone this far.

I'm just going to put an extra "sorry" here because I suck with communication with girls that's why I'm following the manual.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2) (Sign Up)

Postby Momo » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:52 am

Aaaaand let's stop it there. Kiwi, Revvie, shake hands and hug and let's bake a cake together
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2) (Sign Up)

Postby Chibasa » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:54 am

I'll join if we don't have a pair number and pass if we have already.
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