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Holy Grail War (Version 2)

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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Reverend » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:51 pm

So, in an attempt of making Holy Grail War the Forum Game exciting again, I tried to make a few tweaks on the original rules (the first game)
This thing is still very open to discussion.

Rules:
Players will be divided into two teams: Red and Black. The players will not be told who their allies are.

Each team member will receive a unique class at random. Each class has a different ability, listed below.

The goal of the game is to kill all players of the opposing team. This will occur as follows: at the end of each round, all players still alive are to PM GM with the name of a player they wish to vote off. These votes will be sent to the Assassins. Assassin may choose between one of the top two voted players, and that player will be killed. Note that because players do not know their teammates, the killed off player may be a team member. For this reason, Assassin may elect to take no action if he does not trust the vote.

Note that Assassin is a bonus role assigned to a player in addition to a normal class role. If Assassin is killed, the role is transferred to a different member of the team.

Each round lasts 24 hours. The rounds will be followed by an intermediate Assassin Phase, where the Assassins choose their targets. Abilities may only be used during the main rounds (they may not be used in the Assassin Phase). Abilities take effect in the next round. Unless otherwise stated, abilities may be used each round.

The classes and their respective ability are as follows:
  • Saber - This player starts with and has maximum of two lives, and regenerates as long as he/she’s alive. Once per game, and only as long as his/her true name isn’t officially declared via Ruler or Caster ability, Saber may choose to reveal his/her identity to everyone and sacrifice one life to reveal the identity of a random enemy. The enemy's identity will be sent to Saber via PM.
  • Archer - This player may cast two votes. Additionally, Archer may PM me the name of a player. The declared player has his/her ability sealed for the current round. Archer Seal has 1 round cooldown. In addition, as the class with highest survival ability, Archer gets to vote 1 last time after he/she is killed, but only 1 vote. The round in which Archer use his/her last vote is the player’s own choice. (And you cannot seal a dead man.) Each team is guaranteed an Archer. <-- need something to cover Archer's identity. Archer is the center, here, so I need a way to prevent too hax of a luck like last game.

  • Lancer - This player has the option to PM me with the following message: "I think I will be killed." If this prediction is correct, his assailant is killed instead. If this prediction is wrong, Lancer loses this ability for the next 2 rounds of the game. And because I like troll Lancer Lancer is the class with best combat technique and proficiency, Lancer’s ability will not be announced when used, successful or not successful. Only the casualty will be announced.

  • Rider - If this player has a plurality of the vote, his vote count will be reduced by 50% (rounded up). These votes are redistributed to the second and third place players. Additionally, if Rider accumulates 6 vote reductions, the identity of the player with the most votes will be revealed to Rider. <-- hasn't touched yet

  • Caster - Caster gets to know what roles are in play before the start of the game (though he/she will not be notified of the allegiance and the true names.) Caster may PM me with the name of a class at any time as long as he/she’s alive. If Caster is killed, all players of that class are revealed. This includes your teammate, if applicable. The Assassin role may be declared. Caster may change the class selection as many times as he/she wishes. The latest selection will be used. <-- looking to change.

  • Berserker - If Berserker is killed, the opposing Assassin is also killed. This occurs regardless of who kills Berserker. Additionally, Berserker may choose to willingly reveal his/her identity. In this case, the field becomes "frozen with fear": all votes in the current round are discarded, and Assassin will get a free choice of who to kill. <-- hasn't touched yet, but shouldn't really need much touch

  • Ruler -
    1. This player has the option to PM me with the name of a player. That player's identity is then revealed to everyone. Ruler can’t use this ability again for the next 4 rounds.
    2. As long as a Ruler isn’t officially declared to public by GM, he/she may decide to reveal him/herself to public at any time, regardless of first ability cooldown and Archer’s Seal. Once Ruler uses this second ability, he/she can only use the first ability one more time, but it immediately refreshes. (note that you can’t use the first ability again directly. You can only use it next round the soonest.)
    <--- not powerful enough. Something to shield Ruler.

  • Shielder - This player has the option to PM me with the name of a player.
    1. If that player was targeted by Assassins of any team, that player will not die.
    2. Shielder is invulnerable the next round if he/she successfully protect a player.
    3. Shielder cannot protect him/herself, and cannot protect the same person consecutively.

  • Saver - Once per game, this player has the option to PM me with the name of a player. The declared player is then revived.
    - Once Saver used successfully used his/her ability, his/her true name will be declared to public.
    - The player revived has his/her ability cooldown refreshed, though once per game ability can still only be used once (means if you used it before, you can't used it again.)
    - Saver may not revive him/herself.
    - Because of the toll required to actually bring someone back from the death, Saver cannot vote for 3 rounds after he/she successfully uses Revive.
    - For the sake of fairness, Saver will only appear on 5 v 5 or more, and both teams are guaranteed a Saver/no Saver at all.
    <--- I wonder if this is enough nerf to the upgrade done.

  • Avenger - At the start of the game, this player will PM me with the name of a player. Avenger may then PM me with the name of one other player. If the first player dies, the second player will die the round after that. Avenger may change his second selection as many times as he/she wishes as long as the first player is still alive, but the first selection is permanent. Avenger may not target him/herself, for both person #1 and #2 (you can't avenge yourself lol.) For the sake of fairness, Avenger will only appear on 5 v 5 or more, and both teams are guaranteed an Avenger/no Avenger at all. <-- need tweak, preferably upgrade

  • Game Master - Game Master is an entity in the game responsible for collecting the votes, sending the voting result to Assassin of each team each round, and has the right to make every call, solve every dispute, and declare result of each round/win/lose. GM is obliged to not take side, and cannot vote.

Ability order of execution (First > Last): Archer > Avenger > Berserker freeze > Shielder & Lancer > Ruler > Saber > Voting (yes, to vote is also an ability) > [Result sent to Assassin & Assassination] > Berserker passive > Saver > Caster > GM announcement


A few notes on abilities:
  • Vote is also an ability
  • Means if Archer seals you, GM has to discard your vote (for that round.) You will know, though.
  • But no one can seal the ability Assassination
  • Do note that if you’re sealed, means you haven’t use your ability.
  • If Archer targets Saber, Saber loses her regeneration for the following round.
  • In case of people being busy/some odd tactic, an elect Assassin may drop his/her role immediately on the same voting round as when he/she is elected. Do note that GM will treat this case as the team's Assassin elect not to kill for that round. GM will elect a new to-be-Assassin for the team immediately, will notify the new elect, and will send the voting result to the new person. But the person in question can only kill starting from the next round. Also the new elect is considered Assassin thus will be revealed as such if revealed via abilities.
    ps.: the new elect may also drop his/her Assassin role, but as I say: he/she has to do so during the same voting round as he/she is notified of his/her Assassin role.
    another ps.: if everyone from the same team drops, GM may assume that the team throws a white flag and is immediately defeated. So please think a bit before you chicken out of a task.

I haven't put Faker and Watcher yet. Mainly bcs if they're going to be there, they probably will not be changed.
I also need to change a lot of "me"-s here into "GM".
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby ezethan97 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:15 am

Sounds interesting. Don't know if I need to sign up again, but just in case, I'll play.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Reverend » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:50 am

ezethan97 wrote:Sounds interesting. Don't know if I need to sign up again, but just in case, I'll play.

I'm still looking for inputs though.

If there's none, then I'll revert everything above and just use the original thing.
though I will boost saber a bit and nerve saver a bit.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Momo » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:13 pm

So I have nothing to say about the roles, but a stray thought -- what if: at the start of the game, each player was given the roles of 2 other players. There is [some relationship] between these two players, eg. they are both in the same team (which may/may not be yours), or they are in opposite teams.
Or something. Idk, I haven't really thought it through, but looking at the last few games, there's no impetus for anyone to discuss anything. So if railbunny wants to add more public forumversation then there's got to be something to talk about if there's no prologue with hints.

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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Chibasa » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:53 pm

Shielder seems broken. Nerf him and offer counter-play to berserker may be easier than upgrading Avenger/Ruler/Archer.

About Caster, maybe: Know 2 assassins at start of the game (but dunno in which team they are, neither their role). He can reveal himself to know their team. Don't work on new assassin(s) if one(s) starting game is dead already.

(Maybe it's complicated now that you can pass being assassin?)
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Reverend » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:07 am

Momo wrote:So I have nothing to say about the roles, but a stray thought -- what if: at the start of the game, each player was given the roles of 2 other players. There is [some relationship] between these two players, eg. they are both in the same team (which may/may not be yours), or they are in opposite teams.
Or something. Idk, I haven't really thought it through, but looking at the last few games, there's no impetus for anyone to discuss anything. So if railbunny wants to add more public forumversation then there's got to be something to talk about if there's no prologue with hints.


I get what you mean, but I also don't want the game to get solved right on the first round. (that would be nodiff than Rail's 3rd game proposal.)
hmmu

Chibasa wrote:Shielder seems broken. Nerf him and offer counter-play to berserker may be easier than upgrading Avenger/Ruler/Archer.

About Caster, maybe: Know 2 assassins at start of the game (but dunno in which team they are, neither their role). He can reveal himself to know their team. Don't work on new assassin(s) if one(s) starting game is dead already.

(Maybe it's complicated now that you can pass being assassin?)

imo, the fact that Shielder cannot protect the same thing twice is enough nerf.
the Shielder I had in mind actually is also able to shield the person it is shielding from single-target spell, taking the spell for itself. Like: if Archer seals the target Shielder protects, it's Shielder who got sealed instead. But after a bit simulation, I found that not only it's completely useless, in order to do so, I need to put Shielder's Shield as top priority, which is something I don't want because I want Avenger to be able to bypass Shield, but I want Archer to have a chance to save its allies from Avenger.

The pass Assassin thing: if you can find a method to help busy people not being a pain to their team, I'm listening.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Momo » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:09 pm

Reverend wrote:
Momo wrote:So I have nothing to say about the roles, but a stray thought -- what if: at the start of the game, each player was given the roles of 2 other players. There is [some relationship] between these two players, eg. they are both in the same team (which may/may not be yours), or they are in opposite teams.
Or something. Idk, I haven't really thought it through, but looking at the last few games, there's no impetus for anyone to discuss anything. So if railbunny wants to add more public forumversation then there's got to be something to talk about if there's no prologue with hints.


I get what you mean, but I also don't want the game to get solved right on the first round. (that would be nodiff than Rail's 3rd game proposal.)
hmmu

It won't get solved on the first round. Plus there may be job repeats. Plus you don't have to give every player a unique combination.

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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby Reverend » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:41 am

Momo wrote:
Reverend wrote:
Momo wrote:So I have nothing to say about the roles, but a stray thought -- what if: at the start of the game, each player was given the roles of 2 other players. There is [some relationship] between these two players, eg. they are both in the same team (which may/may not be yours), or they are in opposite teams.
Or something. Idk, I haven't really thought it through, but looking at the last few games, there's no impetus for anyone to discuss anything. So if railbunny wants to add more public forumversation then there's got to be something to talk about if there's no prologue with hints.


I get what you mean, but I also don't want the game to get solved right on the first round. (that would be nodiff than Rail's 3rd game proposal.)
hmmu

It won't get solved on the first round. Plus there may be job repeats. Plus you don't have to give every player a unique combination.

hmm I'll see what I can do

Speaking of which, I think I'll start next game either today or tomorrow, depending on the condition of both my fitness and my connection.
Rules and Roles ability... most likely I revert to the old ones, with a bit nerfs and ups.
This proposal by Momo, I'll see if I can mix things up.
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Re: Holy Grail War (Version 2)

Postby shadowhunter » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:40 am

I think there is no reason to know allies (mah teamkills KEK) and enemies. Instead, I offer upgrade to Rider - number of votes needed to be transferred to 2nd and 3rd places reduced from 6 to 3/2. Reason: from looking to logs of voting, there wasn`t anyone who got more than 5 votes, so 50% from 5 = 2 or 3.

P. S. Will play obviously.

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