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3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Chibasa » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:15 am

Homura wrote:................

She simply means a possible situation where ezethan chooses to kill her under the circumstance that she uses her ability, while she chooses not to kill ezethan as Assassin. And she thinks in that case the killer who kills Berserker is not her (Lancer), so she won't die anyway.

Not sure to get what you meant? Isn't it exactly what we answered for?
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Homura » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:19 am

Would such a situation make Momo the only one survive? Btw I don't know what you were talking about either, so I finally replied here.

1. ezethan chooses to kill her under the circumstance that she uses her ability, while she chooses not to kill ezethan as Assassin. => ezethan dies as a result of Lancer's ability.
2. And she thinks in that case the killer who kills Berserker is not her (Lancer), so she won't die anyway.

What she means.
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Homura » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:38 am

I believe that's now crystal clear.
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Chibasa » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:47 am

If Momo indeed have cooldown back, depending on how berserker-lancer relation works, it could make her win.
However, my point is that situation would not exist anyway (since killing Momo is a very bad move for Ezethan).

If Momo was:
Saber => She would kill ezethan
Archer => Already dead in your team
Lancer => She have two possibilities
Rider => She would kill ezethan
Caster => She would kill ezethan
Berserker => She have two possibilities
Ruler => Already dead in your team
Shielder => Already dead in your team
Faker => She would kill ezethan

So only possibilities for Momo to not choose killing ezethan is that she is Lancer or Berserker. There is no way ezethan can win if he kill or not => no reason he try to kill and take risk losing. (Also our Lancer is dead already, so ezethan can't even hope she would fear to kill him while he use Lancer ability and he's alone, so can't be shielded).
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Homura » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:54 am

"my point is that situation would not exist anyway (since killing Momo is a very bad move for Ezethan)."

Huh you dare to say something that's possible definitely wouldn't happen just because it's supposed to be a bad move?
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Chibasa » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:33 am

Homura wrote:"my point is that situation would not exist anyway (since killing Momo is a very bad move for Ezethan)."

Huh you dare to say something that's possible definitely wouldn't happen just because it's supposed to be a bad move?

It's technically possible, like it's technically possible Momo would choose killing herself. But I'm sure it was never her plan.
Zero gain, possible loss, easy to figure out. That's the three reasons why I think it wouldn't happen. My comparison with Momo is a bit extreme, but knowing that ezethan was invested in game enough (cause we were in contact) I think it's harsh to imagine he'd made the choice to kill Momo and even if he'd wanna make this choice, I'd explain him why it's a bad choice (and since I was connected at end of the game I'd think about our strategy before he could cast his choice, during voting round, so unless ezethan decided to kill Momo even knowing it's a choice only bringing a loss possibility, he would not kill Momo).

It's a more detailed explanation. The possibility sure still exists in theory, and if Momo had cooldown ended, game should continue. But calling this result a win isn't possible (and that's reason of my original answer to Momo).
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Homura » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:02 am

Let's call it a day here. For a tiny game like this, more straightforward responses are a no reward thing to do. I have no problem accepting this tie, and I believe (just my opinion tho) Momo has no problem either. It's done, just move on.
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Momo » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:16 pm

Uh oh I think I accidentally opened up a can of worms awks. I don't care who wins, I just don't understand the game. I'm just super confused re: what happened since Revvie didn't say it was a tie, and just ended it calling it mercy (which was what Rail used to cut a game short when one team won). By my confused piecing bits together, the following round fastforward (without the hindsight of now knowing what our roles were) would have been

R4: I use my ability & don't kill because my ability will kill eze
Option 1: Eze tries to kill & dies = Red wins
Option 2: Eze doesn't kill, nothing happens = moves on to R5

R5: I can't use my ability anymore so I kill because I can't win if I don't
Option 1: Eze tries to kill too, we both die = Tie
Option 2: Eze doesn't kill, I kill Eze = Red wins [Of course, now that we know Eze is Berserker, then it's actually a Tie]

I feel like I'm missing some important logic that I need to understand the game. Why would not killing > killing in the absence of knowing I was Lancer with the ability to use my ability?
What game logic would propel him to not kill when:
Image
If he doesn't kill, the best he can hope for is a tie, or that I do nothing and we are at the same impasse (only now potentially with a CD having worn off)
If he does kill, then it would either be an overwhelming chance of victory if I did nothing/missed the assassination period (which tbh I actually probably would have since I've been working 14 hr shifts every day for the past week zzz), or again be all ties if I tried to Kill, unless Homura was actually a Faker and part of Black (which you presumably knew he was not).
Even giving consideration to the fact that in most roles I would not be likely to choose not to kill, there's a much higher chance of nabbing a Tie by attacking (vs 2 chances to lose) than by not attacking (3 chances to lose within this round, increasing to potentially 5 for the next round)

What am I not understanding about this game D:

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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Postby Chibasa » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:07 pm

Saber would lead to a tie whatever decisions would be taken.
Saber's two health doesn't spare him/her from Lancer & Berserker's ability.


Corni was revealed as Black Rider and having two riders in same game seems not working (if both have plurality of votes it can become problematic pretty fast).
Rider's Dodge is so OP it includes everything: Archer's Seal, Berserker Passive Curse, Final Dead Lancer, Avenger's Vendetta, Saber's, Ruler's, and Caster's Reveal, Shielder's Shield, and even Saver's Revive. Also you can't turn it off. GM will announce it to public when Rider's Dodge is used, role and allegiance only. So yeah, pay attention lol.

Rider's 'share vote ability' isn't planned here which confirm double rider isn't planned by game.

Red Ruler was discovered already (Homura)
Also, yeah, Faker dies as Faker. Note #1.


So, how I understand rules means not kill = Tie.

Which leads you to a smaller tab with ties everywhere and Red win on Momo Lancer + eze choose kill + Momo choose not kill.
And then it's exact same reason why you choose to not kill.
On your own tab, you have Red win everywhere and tie on eze berserker + Momo choose kill + whatever eze decide.
(Didn't check all possibilities for you since dunno your knowledge on situation but you get the idea, I guess Saber possibility may change your tab a bit, with win if eze attacks and tie if not)

For black win, there is zero reason it's happen unless you're afk and Revvie doesn't give you extra time in a 1v1 after giving some to Toady yesterday. I'm not really sure why game end (since apparently you had your ability back and technically there are 2 possible solutions), and my first reaction to game end would be there is only 1 solution possible, so can't help you on that part.
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Spoiler for "much more stuff than Toady":
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