2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by akumaxx » Mon May 28, 2012 4:08 am

The Nova side shall win all items.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by Jeffrey-sama » Mon May 28, 2012 4:25 am

akumaxx wrote:The Nova side shall win all items.
Aside from Kanade, Nova's quite weak compared to Stella.
I think only Eu and Kuroneko are the only ones in Nova who have a shot at a necklace this year.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by chan12 » Mon May 28, 2012 5:13 am

1. I Hope Hinagiku, Homura, Haqua (one of them) can grab the Amethyst Necklace
2. My Prediction said if Mikoto and Shana have big chance to get this necklace, but Yuki also have chance in here
3. Yuki always fit with this necklace, below her there are Haqua, Homura, Kuroneko
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by Chikara Icy » Tue May 29, 2012 10:24 am

1. Akemi Homura ( she suitable this but she doesn't get it since become weaker)
2. Shana or Kuroneko maybe...
3. Can't explain it, but Nagato Yuki seems good with her past Amethyst.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by Cross » Tue May 29, 2012 2:01 pm

akumaxx wrote:The Nova side shall win all items.
It's impossible because there is a Diamond Circlet for Stella Division.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by akumaxx » Wed May 30, 2012 3:10 am

Cross wrote:
akumaxx wrote:The Nova side shall win all items.
It's impossible because there is a Diamond Circlet for Stella Division.
Oops. Exclude that.
By the way, with this colouring, one of these Xenos(aliens, people from different world, or anything similar) shall win the necklace:
Xeno list: NovaShow
Fear Kubrick (C³ - Cube x Cursed x Curious)
Tōwa Erio (Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko)
Elucia de Lute Irma (Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai)
Haqua du Lot Herminium (Kami nomi zo Shiru Sekai)
Kuroi Mato (Black★Rock Shooter)
Akemi Homura (Puella Magi Madoka ☆ Magica)
Sakura Kyōko (Puella Magi Madoka ☆ Magica)
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by Eclairs » Wed May 30, 2012 3:16 am

akumaxx wrote:The Nova side shall win all items.
Name us strong Nova girls who can actually beat the Stella goliaths ( Shana, Railgun, Azusa and Yuki ) for necklaces, apart from Yuu ( and maybe kuroneko ). With SDO's playing minimal role due to final score = vote % + SDO/3 , its almost a straight VF fight for necklace.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by Cross » Wed May 30, 2012 4:38 am

^ You forgot Taiga.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by Eclairs » Wed May 30, 2012 5:44 am

Cross wrote:^ You forgot Taiga.
I know, Taiga's a goliath too ;) . Just pointing that how strong Stella line up is, compared the weak Nova casts.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by HasbeenaHibiki » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:38 am

1) Who do you wish that will win the 2012 Amethyst Necklace? Who do you feel to be most deserving of 2012 Amethyst necklace?
Haqua , Kanon, and Erio

(2) Who do you think will win the 2012 Amethyst Necklace? Who will be the contenders and who will be the pretenders for the Amethyst necklace?
Winner- Mikasa
Contenders- Eucliwood, Yuri,Shana, Mikasa, Nagato Yuki

(3) Amethyst posters have reputations of being the best posters, for some reason. Who would look the best in Amethyst poster and why?
Fujibayashi Kyou and Haqua because the Amethyst theme suits them
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by Jack_Rav » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:24 am

KholdStare88 wrote:
xcrossfacekillahx wrote:This is really something to think about heading into next year. SDO advantage disappears because of SDO/3. It doesn't really feel very rewarding for those who can rack up high SDO because it gives their opponents a chance to catch up. Something might need to be changed for next year.
SDO too important. People complain.

SDO not important. People complain.

What do you want, SDO/2.4329846253?
It's always the case that not everyone will be happy. ._. I prefer that SDO is less important though, since it can be very much determined literally by the luck of the draw.

To answer the questions:

1) Yuki
2) Misaka
3) Yuki
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by Cross » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:55 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:
xcrossfacekillahx wrote:This is really something to think about heading into next year. SDO advantage disappears because of SDO/3. It doesn't really feel very rewarding for those who can rack up high SDO because it gives their opponents a chance to catch up. Something might need to be changed for next year.
SDO too important. People complain.

SDO not important. People complain.

What do you want, SDO/2.4329846253?
I prefer less importance of SDO so the winner are more determined by people power.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by kanohistorm » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:32 pm

I think ~4% SDO between highest and lowest is about right, but got to see if that number stays true throughout all periods before we can make any concrete assumptions of the current formula
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by maglor » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:18 pm

Jack_Rav wrote: It's always the case that not everyone will be happy. ._. I prefer that SDO is less important though, since it can be very much determined literally by the luck of the draw.
Cross wrote:
KholdStare88 wrote:
xcrossfacekillahx wrote:This is really something to think about heading into next year. SDO advantage disappears because of SDO/3. It doesn't really feel very rewarding for those who can rack up high SDO because it gives their opponents a chance to catch up. Something might need to be changed for next year.
SDO too important. People complain.

SDO not important. People complain.

What do you want, SDO/2.4329846253?
I prefer less importance of SDO so the winner are more determined by people power.
Here is the fundamental question to all this.

How do you reward girls for defeating tough opponents?

Which is equivalent to

How do you penalize girls for cakewalking through easy schedule?

If someone can supply us with better answers above question, we will listen and seriously consider it. Sadly, we can't go on testing all possible suggestions, thus it would help us greatly if you could fill in the details, show us some case examples, and point out possible points of failure.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by xcrossfacekillahx » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:47 pm

maglor wrote:
Here is the fundamental question to all this.

How do you reward girls for defeating tough opponents?

Which is equivalent to

How do you penalize girls for cakewalking through easy schedule?

If someone can supply us with better answers above question, we will listen and seriously consider it. Sadly, we can't go on testing all possible suggestions, thus it would help us greatly if you could fill in the details, show us some case examples, and point out possible points of failure.
Of course this is where SDO comes in. It's a little bit modified from last year but it works the same way it has been. It is highly dependent of the scores of the opponents. I've got no problem with this. In fact SDO might be slightly higher this year because of the fractional point in place.
kanohistorm wrote:I think ~4% SDO between highest and lowest is about right, but got to see if that number stays true throughout all periods before we can make any concrete assumptions of the current formula
It's because of the current formula. But then again let's see, it might be too early to judge.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by RegalStar » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:06 pm

Kuroneko and Eucliwood are decently strong enough that they can go toe to toe at least with the best of the stella, and at least come out with enough VF to cement a decent SDO advantage if they must.

Problem for them: They've already faced each other. Now, if they face Kanade for rank 1 vs rank 1, they're going to get 6 wins and lose SDO (as well as possibly the right to even be eligible). If they face Homura or Charlotte, their SDO are going to plummet due to how weak Homura/Charlotte are compared to their rank. So unless they receive a very good schedule otherwise, their one chance to the necklace is basically when they face Kobato the wildcard.

Stella does have its problems too (two pairs of intraseries/seiyuu possibly dragging both parties down), though, but I think it's less drastic than Nova's SDO problem.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by loudmouth » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:45 pm

RegalStar wrote:Kuroneko and Eucliwood are decently strong enough that they can go toe to toe at least with the best of the stella, and at least come out with enough VF to cement a decent SDO advantage if they must.

Problem for them: They've already faced each other. Now, if they face Kanade for rank 1 vs rank 1, they're going to get 6 wins and lose SDO (as well as possibly the right to even be eligible). If they face Homura or Charlotte, their SDO are going to plummet due to how weak Homura/Charlotte are compared to their rank. So unless they receive a very good schedule otherwise, their one chance to the necklace is basically when they face Kobato the wildcard.
This makes me wonder a bit. I do like the new system, the split divisions allows for more characters, so more people become interested in the League. But I've been wondering since I first heard about the new system, if in a pool of 36 contestants, would it be better to have 5 groups of 7 or 7 groups of 5? This year we have 5 girls in each tier and 7 tiers, so we have 5 periods with 7 matches per period. What would happen if there were 7 girls per tier and 5 tiers? I'm sure it was considered at some point, at least somewhat. Out of curiosity, what was the reasoning behind keeping the 7 tiers rather than the 7 periods?
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by maglor » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:56 pm

loudmouth wrote:
RegalStar wrote:Kuroneko and Eucliwood are decently strong enough that they can go toe to toe at least with the best of the stella, and at least come out with enough VF to cement a decent SDO advantage if they must.

Problem for them: They've already faced each other. Now, if they face Kanade for rank 1 vs rank 1, they're going to get 6 wins and lose SDO (as well as possibly the right to even be eligible). If they face Homura or Charlotte, their SDO are going to plummet due to how weak Homura/Charlotte are compared to their rank. So unless they receive a very good schedule otherwise, their one chance to the necklace is basically when they face Kobato the wildcard.
This makes me wonder a bit. I do like the new system, the split divisions allows for more characters, so more people become interested in the League. But I've been wondering since I first heard about the new system, if in a pool of 36 contestants, would it be better to have 5 groups of 7 or 7 groups of 5? This year we have 5 girls in each tier and 7 tiers, so we have 5 periods with 7 matches per period. What would happen if there were 7 girls per tier and 5 tiers? I'm sure it was considered at some point, at least somewhat. Out of curiosity, what was the reasoning behind keeping the 7 tiers rather than the 7 periods?
Simply, it was easier to reduce volatility of schedule strength with 7 tiers instead of 7 periods. You can think of this as having 7 chance to even the score instead of 5.
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by loudmouth » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:30 pm

maglor wrote: Simply, it was easier to reduce volatility of schedule strength with 7 tiers instead of 7 periods. You can think of this as having 7 chance to even the score instead of 5.
Oh I see. I guess I just wish there was a way for there to be more girls in each tier, and the variety that that would bring, but I guess it's less important than having more matches per round. Remember when there used to be 9 matches per period?
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Re: 2012 Amethyst Necklace Discussions

Post by maglor » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:44 pm

loudmouth wrote:
maglor wrote: Simply, it was easier to reduce volatility of schedule strength with 7 tiers instead of 7 periods. You can think of this as having 7 chance to even the score instead of 5.
Oh I see. I guess I just wish there was a way for there to be more girls in each tier, and the variety that that would bring, but I guess it's less important than having more matches per round. Remember when there used to be 9 matches per period?
While the Central Limit Theorem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_limit_theorem" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) says it is easier to balance the schedule with 9 matches per period instead of 7, in 2008 and 2009, we were still learning about how to properly conduct preliminary phase and seed the contestants, thus unable to better ascertain good seed number for each character which is needed to keep the period opponent strength sum, steady as possible. If we could have used the what we now know about prelim and seeding for 2008 or 2009 season, I am very certain the volatility seen in SDO would have been much less.

The problem in 2008 and 2009 simply was that the regular season was too long. We have looked at all possible number combinations and have came to conclusion that 36 contestants per division is the optimal number. 36 contestants means 35 matches, which has 5 and 7 as its only 2 factors. Unless someone enlighten us with novel ideas that let us get around some number related problems, I think 5 periods of 7 round structure is here to stay. Still, just 2 month ago, by chance, we came upon a way to use number other than 84 per division for the prelim, a number that I thought to be unavoidable given the many constraints. Forward me, by pm, any new hunch or inspiration about these number related problems, so we can explore them without boring the crowd with walls of texts, equations, and numbers.
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