RESULTS - Emerald 7

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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by runner97 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:11 am

Massive tactical voting and large scale organization takes time and dedication, so while it may not indicate the fanbase of a character in numbers, it shows which fanbase cares more about their characters winning.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Demi. » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:22 am

Yeah, but while the faction tactical voting might be deserving of their wins, It's screwing all the other characters over. Because the faction voting for or against them is not even partial/impartial to those characters. Tactical sniping is ftl.

They're just being greedy now. I hope it bites them in the ass when no one outside of their faction is willing to vote their characters anymore. Besides, this is series favoritism, and I doubt it has anything to do with them finding the RM girls moe, as Shinku and Suigintou supporters are usually on opposite ends of a fanbase.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by ithekro » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:27 am

It is not like this is new, or special to ISML either. It is an original Saimoe product. Just keeping in form with the big leagues after all.

Considering the two largest known factions of Saimoe were the Rozen Maidens and Nanoha factions, this is not a new thing.

In fact this will be the first year were neither the Rozen Maidens nor Nanoha will be in Saimoe since 2005. I'd say it was a new ballgame, but a lot of the other 2006-2008 contenders are back again instead.

On the other hand the Saimoe preliminaries give me hope for Mei breaking 50% by the end of this tournament. She's trying to hold on now with a positive VD, she just has to win a few in a row and then just keep her win-loss ration even after that.

Chii will need to win every single remaining match to keep above 50% at the end now. Not much hope there. But a good run for a 2002 character that hasn't had any sequels or spin-offs.

"Osaka" would like a win...any win at this point.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Chocola » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:35 am

Yeah, I agree. Fans come with popularity, and if you haven't noticed, the amount of votes in ISML 2009 is a lot more than 2008. It's not surprising for there to be "change."

And of course I shouldn't be saying this, but all contests are popularity contests, even ISML. Let's not deceive ourselves. I personally think that this system is better than last year's, and you know how much I hate praising something coming from Juice. Tactical voting, to me, is a lesser evil than having a weak schedule and getting lucky so you can have high VD and win the period.

Of course, it doesn't matter except for getting necklaces, which doesn't even grant you any special right in ISML 2010 (yet). You all are getting worked up by a little tactical voting for a poster.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Demi. » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:54 am

Who were you replying back to?

I say more complicated voting method will make this contest as accurate as possible. Sure, it would weed out some 500(or more) voters, but it would give the less popular characters a chance, simply because the ones remaining are the voters who truly care. I say, if you're willing to take more than a minute to vote, then you're willing to watch anime featured in ISML. Poll voting is so easy to abuse, even if It's not considered cheating...But even strangers will vote for who you request since it takes zero effort.

Who knows, this "faction" might be some large gaming guild who is messaged during match days and sports several hundred members. Hell, I could probably use my RoM guild and pull in some pretty big numbers...but I don't like pulling in random voters.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Hetaliafan09 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:13 am

These are the most win results I've seen in a long time.

Go starfish moe~
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Talec » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:50 am

The problem with the tactical voting starts when you take a look to the ladder.

While its fair that Suigintou is Place number one cause she has the biggest fanbase outthere, it's not fair that (taking an actual super extrem dramatized example) Number 2 is Ibuki Fūko, because the Suigintou fanbase constantly voted all famous threats down within all matches to be sure there is noone that can come close to their favorite.

I don't care who wins this "contest", but if in the end the ladder is messed up and superior famous Characters like Hiiragi Kagami and Fate Testarossa are loitering around Place 20, this ladder is doubtless no more an indicator for the international popularity of anime characters.

This is a fun contestant and no chessgame in which you have to defeat all enemys 20 rounds before the climax, damnit. This is so typical otaku extreme wackiness!


Of course, not just criticising, so how to improve this system for 2010? uhm... let's say we have about 5000 voters worldwide... so I give big countries like China and USA about 1000 voters......... how about: when there are more than 200-300 votes in one country within the same voting round which have 90% identical results, to take them out and annul them because of "tactical voting suspicion" ?

Of course that's only an idea, since for the ISML operators the only thing they care is how much people are participating. So are they really willing to piss of many silent voters for the sake of 50 active voters? Think about it Demi.

The other way, I don't get this system anyway. Shana has the best performance, only lost once (because of tactical voting?) and is only place 7 in the current ladder? This system is somewhat strange / half-baked...
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by chaosprophet » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:55 pm

Demi. wrote:Me? Giving input?

Make it to where the system doesn't revolve around how well your oppnents do. It gives incensive to tactical vote, and is easy to manipulate as proven. Reverting it to the original and watching overrated characters with large vote totals constantly win the necklace...is better than this shit. But wait...then factions will just attempt to upset every character in contension.

Basically, throw the current one in a grinder and start anew~ And come up with something I havn't already thought of, since none of those will work.
I hardly think the current system had anything to do witht the amount of tatical voting. This system is actually much harder to tatical vote than the one from before as you had to look to all characters that each will have a match in the period. Juica did his best to make each character schedule have the same difficult, Itisn't perfect but still good. If you look at it most of the tatical voting is the more simple one that already was able to happen last year: defeat most or all other contestants so the ones you want that have 9 wins. The bigger ammount of tatical voting this year is because the bigger number of voters.
Talec wrote:The other way, I don't get this system anyway. Shana has the best performance, only lost once (because of tactical voting?) and is only place 7 in the current ladder? This system is somewhat strange / half-baked...
This is part of the system. If you want a fair period schedule to all characters you need that the strongest only face each other oce for period, but how do you rank the strongest ones? By having then face each other! So you only can see the top most ranking taking it's true shape around the end when each strongest character has faced each other (the same thing can be said about all other tiers, like how in the beginning the weakest character were really mixed and you couldn't really tell who was the strongest).
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Talec » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:07 pm

chaosprophet wrote:This is part of the system. If you want a fair period schedule to all characters you need that the strongest only face each other oce for period, but how do you rank the strongest ones? By having then face each other! So you only can see the top most ranking taking it's true shape around the end when each strongest character has faced each other (the same thing can be said about all other tiers, like how in the beginning the weakest character were really mixed and you couldn't really tell who was the strongest).
I just saw that the list on the toppage is only the ladder for Emerald and not the overall list. Well makes things a little bit more reasonable again. :mrgreen:
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by ilkaid » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:55 pm

:surprised: I'm suprised Fuuko beat Nanoha, it's nice suprise though :P
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by CrimsonFallingStar » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:07 pm

Those who are so upset, please just give it a rest. I could easily start griping about the system in which Shana obliterates her opponents and has by far the best performance ranking, but is still not even a contender for the necklace because of the SDO factor. I could be making a scene about how my character deserves to win instead of yours. But the point is that there is going to be a pitfall in any system, and if the Rozen Maiden fans are taking advantage of that pitfall, then so be it. If the results went by which character raked in the most votes, then my favourite character would be winning.

But it doesn't matter.

Because this contest is for FUN.

And it seems like some of you are doing your damnedest to suck the fun out of it.

Just stop it. Appreciate the staff for making the contest possible, and appreciate that a contest like this even exists.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Eater-of-All » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:14 pm

It's just the typical "real moe" vs "tactical moe" issue. If you're practical, you'll know that every system is flawed and accept tactical voting as is while voting your girl from the sidelines. If you're idealistic, then you'll always find faults with the system and look for improvements which, themselves, may or may not even exist. Arguing from different perspectives will just lead to endless debating.


Results:
...Fuuko o.O

77.16% - #02 Shana (SnS) > #58 Mizunashi Akari (ARIA)
^ Poor Akari, that was plain massacre. :tearsad:
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Demi. » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:29 pm

CrimsonFallingStar wrote:Those who are so upset, please just give it a rest. I could easily start griping about the system in which Shana obliterates her opponents and has by far the best performance ranking, but is still not even a contender for the necklace because of the SDO factor. I could be making a scene about how my character deserves to win instead of yours. But the point is that there is going to be a pitfall in any system, and if the Rozen Maiden fans are taking advantage of that pitfall, then so be it. If the results went by which character raked in the most votes, then my favourite character would be winning.

But it doesn't matter.

Because this contest is for FUN.

And it seems like some of you are doing your damnedest to suck the fun out of it.

Just stop it. Appreciate the staff for making the contest possible, and appreciate that a contest like this even exists.
Who cares, I need something to do in this contest, since I obviously can't expect decent results anymore. It's fun supporting and watching my favorite characters win. Not wonder whether or not they're going to lose to someone 30 ranks below them. I enjoy the contest for what It's supposed to be, not for what It's becoming. And trust me, if this contest didn't exist, I would have a lot more time to do things that I enjoy, but since there is no avoiding it now, I'de like the contest to not be manipulated...Especially when I put so much effort into it only to have the results overthrown by a bunch of tactical voters. If I was arguing over which characters don't deserve to win even half as much, then I wouldn't be directing my frustration at the dolls. *Points up at the top two ranks*
I'll just say you're lucky Shana's not a contender, because if she was, she'de be losing in Emerald 9. Hell, the only reason she hasn't lost since they arrived, is because the only time she was a contender, was the only time the dolls were not in contention.

Comments like those really get nowhere. At least not with me. It's no real better than what I'm doing. I wasn't flaming, nor angrily discussing with Kholdstare. Was just doing my usual tactical vote rants; which lead to nowhere. But It's better than playing this contest like scripted roles.

And I don't know how annoyed Khodlstare is by it, but considering we talk on Irc normally(the few time's I'm there), I doubt It's putting a damper in his beauty sleep.

_____________

As for making ISML slightly more complicated to vote in. I think a randomly generated 5 point questionnaire...would be pretty awesome. Obviously not everyone is going to know the answers to every question, but if you make it to where they can be googled, then atleast they're putting effort into answering the ones they don't know, and maybe it will strike some cord and make them think - "Hey, I think I'm going to like this character" And then proceed to watch the anime. Profit!

Multiple choice questions, perhaps? If you miss more than one, then you can't vote that day... :lol:
Last edited by Demi. on Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by melange » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:52 pm

Demi. wrote:But It's better than playing this contest like scripted roles.
You might be fed up with this "scripted" contest, but give a thought for ppl who are fed up with ur "scripted" rants.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Demi. » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:56 pm

melange wrote:
Demi. wrote:But It's better than playing this contest like scripted roles.
You might be fed up with this "scripted" contest, but give a thought for ppl who are fed up with ur "scripted" rants.
Melange, I thought we were pals! :o

Are you fed up with them? I only ever direct them at Kholdstare, since he's the only real active admin. No one else seems to mind, and some even agree with me. I see nothing wrong with debates, It's better than as I said -- scripted voting. It is all a script, Isn't it? And not 'scripted' meaning, the same ol'e resuls. Scripted as in "rinse, wash, and repeat."

Oh, and since I somehow completely overlooked Talec's post -
While its fair that Suigintou is Place number one cause she has the biggest fanbase outthere, it's not fair that (taking an actual super extrem dramatized example) Number 2 is Ibuki Fūko, because the Suigintou fanbase constantly voted all famous threats down within all matches to be sure there is noone that can come close to their favorite.
My sentiments exactly.
Last edited by Demi. on Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Fate » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:57 pm

I think we should all quit and reach a general consensus that this contest means nothing. It's for the best.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Game8910 » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:04 pm

melange wrote:
Demi. wrote:But It's better than playing this contest like scripted roles.
You might be fed up with this "scripted" contest, but give a thought for ppl who are fed up with ur "scripted" rants.
omg finally someone speaks truth....seriously....bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch is really getting annoying, you're taking this contest waaaaay too seriously man, you say you could be doing other things you enjoy THEN GO DO THEM and take a break from this. Just learn to accept the fact that no matter how much you complain you wont be able to stop people from tactical voting and the RM faction wont go away either.... :jii:
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Demi. » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:11 pm

I already said I can't. I'm locked in because Fate's participating. If she wasn't I'm not sure whether or not I'de still be voting...but, I probably wouldn't care anymore.
+I feel inclined to deter the RM faction now, since I don't want to let them have their way. Whether I do it from pulling in more support(likely) or whether the system is changed(not happening) - Doesn't matter. But I will think of something~ And if you can't say anything while there is no one to agree with you, then It's pretty pathetic to say something when there is. I sense the bandwagon affect.

And this isn't bitching. When I start bitching, you'll know it.

Is there no one to agree on my questionnaire? I thought it was a pretty reasonable and fun idea.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Team Rocket Elite » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:18 pm

Demi. wrote:I doubt RM is strong enough to win the Tiara, but they're untoppable when they put their forces into a top-tier matchup...forcing losses onto the character they go against.
To be honest, I can't see them not winning the Tiara at this rate as long as they want to win. Suigintou should be able to beat anyone except Shana is a straight up fight. Haruhi, Tomoyo and Yuki are kinda threats as well. Suigintou just needs to avoid drawing any of those 4 as a first round opponent. The way the standings are now, Suigintou will get a favorable first round opponent. The next step is to just have other characters knock off Shana, Haruhi, Tomoyo and Yuki. If you believe Kotomi nearly knocking off Shana was their doing, almost anyone else in the Top 16 with a boost can beat those 4. Even if Suigintou falls into the Loser's bracket, it complicates things slightly but the result can still be manipulated so Suigintou wins.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Chocola » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:30 pm

Guys, tactical voting doesn't work in ISML when in the end everyone already faces everyone else. All you're arguing for, all this SDO crap is about who wins the next necklace which has no relevance whatsoever to the Tiara nor ISML 2010. All you can do is try to take out whoever's in front of your favorite character, and you cannot stop that kind of tactical voting with any system.
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