RESULTS - Emerald 7

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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Talec » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:11 am

Demi. wrote:I put a lot of effort into campaigning for this contest, so when I refresh to these kind of results, It's no different than experiencing a double whammy of fail.
Then it's now time to seriously stand back to wasting time for this contest. As the last 2 pages revealed that the ISML contest can't be taken serious (could it ever?). :roll:

You see, it's just a fun page. For a real international voting arena, the admins do too little, so this contest is just hanging around to kill time.

That's it, nothing more and nothing less. If it doesn't work for you you should stop damageing your own nerves ;)
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by melange » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:48 am

Learning the Buddhist virtue of non-attachment is often key to most things in life. But it doesn't mean you should not even care/try. Try hard but learn to not let failure/disappointment upset you too much emotionally.

And be aware that you will not be the only one putting a lot of effort into campaigning. Others will be as well. Sometimes their efforts achieve more results than yours. And that is life.
I wasn't trolling as far as I know, since everything I posted is what I believe to be true. Except repeating myself Over and over...and over again.
Believing what one has to say is true or not is not the dividing line between trolls and non-trolls. There can be trolls who don't believe what they are saying and there can be trolls who do. Trolling is more about the action of trolling (which often does include repeating things over and over again) and not the presence or absence of belief on part of the person accused to be trolling.

The question of 'how much anime knowledge' as prerequisite to voting in a moe contest falls very quickly into the problem of elitism. Where is that line to be drawn? Is a person 'capable of judging' once he has seen 10 anime? 100? 1000? Or is it necessary to have seen every single anime since the dawn of the medium? Where does the slippery slope take you? You might disdain other people for 'not knowing enough' and hold J-saimoe as having the right idea. But the people in J-saimoe disdain you and me and every 'foreigner' trying to vote in their contest the same way as "those gaijin who have only seen a limited number of popular series". When you are on the receiving end of that holier than thou disdain, how do you feel?

Different people have different limits they assume are minimally acceptable for 'anime knowledge'. It just may be the ISML organizers have had a more 'generous' or 'naive' limit then you do or J-saimoe does.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Juice » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:12 pm

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK.

After reading through all the rants and balancing every idea, I have come up with a possible solution. Against the wishes of Commissioner minhtam, I propose we keep the SDO-SAO tiebreak for Periods in ISML but we DO NOT POST the schedule for ANY of the characters. This will prevent tactical voting, as you would be voting blind, at least until Ruby or Diamond. This seems to be the most reasonable idea considering we need a fair tie-break system and a way to minimize tactical voting.

I hope this puts all minds at ease. :)
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by LazyCanuck » Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:57 pm

lol actually that sounds like a really good idea Juice (i cant believe i just bloody said that) ((brb killing self))
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by chaosprophet » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:28 pm

Juice wrote:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK.

After reading through all the rants and balancing every idea, I have come up with a possible solution. Against the wishes of Commissioner minhtam, I propose we keep the SDO-SAO tiebreak for Periods in ISML but we DO NOT POST the schedule for ANY of the characters. This will prevent tactical voting, as you would be voting blind, at least until Ruby or Diamond. This seems to be the most reasonable idea considering we need a fair tie-break system and a way to minimize tactical voting.

I hope this puts all minds at ease. :)
Hey that idea is great IMO... it may put off some people but think it would be more exciting. And as everyone will have one and only one match against each other in the end there isn't the need for the voters to knoe the schedule beforehand.
Demi. wrote:If ISML's goal is to amass as many voters as possible regardless how limited their anime knowlede is, then yes...Just not my views on what a moe contest should be like(Not that my opinion matters). But again, I always thought Japanese Saimoe had the right idea.

And this too, apparently(No longer feeling argumentative)
I don't think you got my point in this part Demi. It's not about getting as many people as we can but trying to make it easier for people of any country to vote so that this becomes an international contest like it's name says. Even with it being as easy as it is not many of the Japanese votes. Making it harder would work the way you want in a contest for one country/one language. But in a contest like ours that would put off voters from some others countries regardless of their anime knowledge. So instead of filtering people by their anime knowledge we would be filtering then by the language they speak. Try to think abou your questionarie idea. We would have to do it in many different languages every match and still the people who speaks other languages then the ones we have would be lost.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Fate » Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:07 pm

I think we should just all take it easy...
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by melange » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:40 pm

Juice wrote:After reading through all the rants and balancing every idea, I have come up with a possible solution. Against the wishes of Commissioner minhtam, I propose we keep the SDO-SAO tiebreak for Periods in ISML but we DO NOT POST the schedule for ANY of the characters. This will prevent tactical voting, as you would be voting blind, at least until Ruby or Diamond. This seems to be the most reasonable idea considering we need a fair tie-break system and a way to minimize tactical voting.
I am so groggy from little sleep but I distinctly recall someone (was it me? I don't even remember) mentioning that revealing the schedule ahead of time was going to cause problems of precisely the plan-ahead-tactical-voting sort... >_> yay now we can blame it all on Minty again. >_<
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by runner97 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:20 pm

melange wrote:
Juice wrote:After reading through all the rants and balancing every idea, I have come up with a possible solution. Against the wishes of Commissioner minhtam, I propose we keep the SDO-SAO tiebreak for Periods in ISML but we DO NOT POST the schedule for ANY of the characters. This will prevent tactical voting, as you would be voting blind, at least until Ruby or Diamond. This seems to be the most reasonable idea considering we need a fair tie-break system and a way to minimize tactical voting.
I am so groggy from little sleep but I distinctly recall someone (was it me? I don't even remember) mentioning that revealing the schedule ahead of time was going to cause problems of precisely the plan-ahead-tactical-voting sort... >_> yay now we can blame it all on Minty again. >_<
But then they would just vote against all the top characters all the time instead of just when they are in the way.

And it would change ISML Fantasy up quite a bit.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by CrowKenobi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:57 pm

runner07 wrote:But then they would just vote against all the top characters all the time instead of just when they are in the way.
The former would be easier to stomach than the latter, imho. :D
And it would change ISML Fantasy up quite a bit.
It would end fantasy as we know it... :(
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Game8910 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:10 pm

maglor wrote:
CrimsonFallingStar wrote:
Game8910 wrote:and since you are on the topic might as well make 1 question promting the voter to declare how many of the animes on ISML they have actually watched
would you use the answer to that question to gauge how much the voter's vote is actually worth? i would expect that to end up with plenty of pitfalls. would you deny an IP the ability to vote if they didn't watch enough anime? that sounds like dangerous territory.
No vote should be denied for watching insufficient amount of anime series. However, I am very curious about difference in voting habits of those that have seen less than 10, 10 - 100 series, and more than 100 series.
thats what I meant when I said it....why would be ignore people?
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Chocola » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:56 pm

Juice wrote:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK.

After reading through all the rants and balancing every idea, I have come up with a possible solution. Against the wishes of Commissioner minhtam, I propose we keep the SDO-SAO tiebreak for Periods in ISML but we DO NOT POST the schedule for ANY of the characters. This will prevent tactical voting, as you would be voting blind, at least until Ruby or Diamond. This seems to be the most reasonable idea considering we need a fair tie-break system and a way to minimize tactical voting.

I hope this puts all minds at ease. :)
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Game8910 » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:21 pm

we can also say goodbye to fantasy with that idea
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Demi. » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:37 pm

Fantasy would indeed be put to rest.

It sounds like a good idea, the SDO/SAO system certainly could't be manipulated that way...but you're atleast going to have the coming match up on the voting page before it actually starts, right?

For instance, after Amethyst two ends, those arenas will be switched out for Amethyst 3...There is just no knowledge of what Amethyst 4-9 will look like(or any of the other periods)
melange wrote:The question of 'how much anime knowledge' as prerequisite to voting in a moe contest falls very quickly into the problem of elitism.
Well, the way I see it - ISML is nothing like Japanese Saimoe or Korean Bestmoe...the number of contestants is actually fairly limited. If some one finds time to vote each day, then they should find time to give as many series represented in ISML a chance as they can. They can do it throughout the regular season, or whatever...but by the time Double Elimination starts, they should have a lot more knoeledge then what they came in with. The problem is, a lot of voters just assume what they watched is the greatest thing ever, and don't even bother giving other series a chance. I doubt there are too many voting regular in this contest who have so little free time that they can't watch anime featured in ISML without it ruining their RL.
chaosprophet wrote:I don't think you got my point in this part Demi. It's not about getting as many people as we can but trying to make it easier for people of any country to vote so that this becomes an international contest like it's name says. Even with it being as easy as it is not many of the Japanese votes. Making it harder would work the way you want in a contest for one country/one language. But in a contest like ours that would put off voters from some others countries regardless of their anime knowledge. So instead of filtering people by their anime knowledge we would be filtering then by the language they speak. Try to think abou your questionarie idea. We would have to do it in many different languages every match and still the people who speaks other languages then the ones we have would be lost.
If you consider that the US is slowly falling off the radar in terms of popularity within ISML, while other countries are steadily increasing. I just don't think making slight complications in the voting is going to affect international support. If I didn't know any better, I'de say this contest was located somewhere inbetween Taiwan, and China. It will keep the ones that care, and the others will move on. Support will be lost, but not only International support, but rather, every kind of support. Though with what I was thinking, it was only going to be a minor thing. It's not going to be used, anyways...Although you guys are thinking of something similar...to weed out potential bots, atleast.
Last edited by Demi. on Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Chocola » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:51 pm

What makes you think we can't do ISML Fantasy match by match? You don't have to participate all the time, and we can do a bayesian estimate at the end (since that factors in how many matches you participated in). There are many ways to play Fantasy.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Demi. » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:01 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:What makes you think we can't do ISML Fantasy match by match? You don't have to participate all the time, and we can do a bayesian estimate at the end (since that factors in how many matches you participated in). There are many ways to play Fantasy.
Suppose, people will be much better that method since It's a lot easier to predict match-by-match then it is to predict before any result is released.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Chocola » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:27 pm

One problem I could see is that people might not want to participate if they feel "blind." We always say, "Oh, I really look forward to x vs. y in Ruby," or something like that, but now we can't do that anymore if we follow this idea.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Eater-of-All » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:38 pm

Juice wrote:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK.

After reading through all the rants and balancing every idea, I have come up with a possible solution. Against the wishes of Commissioner minhtam, I propose we keep the SDO-SAO tiebreak for Periods in ISML but we DO NOT POST the schedule for ANY of the characters. This will prevent tactical voting, as you would be voting blind, at least until Ruby or Diamond. This seems to be the most reasonable idea considering we need a fair tie-break system and a way to minimize tactical voting.

I hope this puts all minds at ease. :)
Hoho, that's a pretty good idea. It also allows people to look forward to matchups in addition to results.
KholdStare88 wrote:One problem I could see is that people might not want to participate if they feel "blind." We always say, "Oh, I really look forward to x vs. y in Ruby," or something like that, but now we can't do that anymore if we follow this idea.
The only problem I have is instead of getting nuked by Fantasy at the end of every period, I would get killed by Fantasy at the end of every match. Oh joy. :mad:
Last edited by Eater-of-All on Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Fate » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:39 pm

We need Fantasy 'cause it's for the fun. It's not about gaining or losing points.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by ithekro » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:45 am

I propose we keep the SDO-SAO tiebreak for Periods in ISML but we DO NOT POST the schedule for ANY of the characters.
I agree with this plan, even if it causes some interesting problems. Not knowing who the girls are up against until the day or (or maybe the day before sort of thing)would put a little more suspense into the rounds I think.
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Re: RESULTS - Emerald 7

Post by Chocola » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:53 am

Damn it, I don't want to keep agreeing with Juice.
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