ISML 2012 Plans, v2

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ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Crisu » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:09 pm

Thanks to everyone for the feedback regarding our initial proposal. After spending some time with your opinions and thinking things over, we have some updates plus new announcements as well.

Regular Season Updates

Image The newcomer division will be officially named Nova (新星, shinsei).
Image The veteran division will be officially named Stella (恒星, kousei).

The number of periods will be reduced to five. This was a very difficult decision to make because we wanted to keep the traditional seven, but we would not be able to balance the Contestants properly in that format. This year we had 7 tiers of 7 girls each (+1 wildcard), and our schedule was 7 rounds in 7 periods. With the reduction to 35+1 girls per division, our lineup has to be 7 tiers of 5 girls each (+1 WC) scheduled for 7 rounds in 5 periods.

The new periods will occur in this order:
AquamarineAmethystRubyEmeraldTopaz
Inspiration comes from the classical planets in our solar system. Sapphire and Diamond will be dropped from the Regular Season. Whether or not they return in different forms (e.g. exhibition prizes) will likely be decided next year.

Contestants who lose a match will be awarded partial points based on their performance. Currently winners get 3 points and losers get 0. Next year, the loser will gain VF/VA points. For example, if girl A beats girl B by one vote, A gets 3 points and B gets 0.99. If a tie occurs, both girls get 1 point each. What this will do is make SDO a more accurate model of a Contestant's strength. Edit: If A beats B by a score of 4208 to 1879, A gets 3 points and B gets 1879/4208 = 0.44653 points.

The Necklace Showdown (Round 8) will include 1v1 inter-divisional matchups between Nova and Stella. I imagine there will be 10 or 15 on the ballot. Because we won't be able to showcase every possible combination, there will have to be some criteria for selecting who appears. We don't know what that is yet; it can be decided later on. We may come up with a way to rank everybody, or even take some community requests. These matches will be treated as exhibition for the time being, and we currently don't have plans to give awards for these matches or "advance" the winners in a sort of side tournament.

Necklace Score = Vote% + (SDO / 3)
The new Necklace Score will be the sum of the vote percentage in the Necklace Round and one third of the Contestant's SDO in the Period. It is not possible for SDO to go away, but we will lessen its impact to narrow the field among those seeking the Necklace. Because of partial points, SDO will have decimal values and won't be separated in multiples of 3 like this year.
Preliminary Period Updates

There will still be just a single Nomination Phase. The maximum number of characters you can nominate will be somewhere between 12 and 20. Staff will apply Nova/Stella classification after results are tallied.

The Preliminary Phase will still have separate brackets for Nova and Stella. Each division will have 120 Candidates. Some portion of this will be auto-qualifiers; rules are TBD but at least one qualifier will be some milestone from ISML 2011 (e.g. win/loss ratio or Necklace or Top x).
Phase I - small-group free-for-all format, allowing you to choose 2 or 3 girls per arena
Phase II - small-group round-robin format
Phase III - single-elimination tournament format
These phases are similar to ISML 2011 except they will occur in the order 3-1-2 for ISML 2012. Other details will be unveiled later.


Still the Same
  • The Necklace Showdown will still consist of 7 girls (3 Nova + 3 Stella + 1 from either). Exhibition matches in groups of 7 will be used again just as you've seen this year.
  • The Postseason plan has no updates since version 1. We still plan on two separate single-elimination brackets for Nova and Stella. And then the top 8 from each will form a Championship single-elimination bracket for the Tiara.
  • Determining newcomer vs veteran remains unchanged. Anime from the last two years is eligible for Nova. Everyone else prior to that is Stella, except for those who fall under the 4-year Return Rule. While the possibilties seem endless, we do not expect this to be a problem in actual practice once nomination results are tallied.
Discussion
  • All of our qualification Rules are still guidelines at best. Rest assured we will handle those edge-cases with common sense and place nominated girls in their proper divisions.
  • We associated the necklace periods with the planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, respectively. The initial consideration is the color white (diamond) for Venus, but white/gray is pretty boring for our graphics team so we gave it purple instead. Sapphire was dropped because we already have Aquamarine to represent blue.
- Here's a link to the first proposal if you need to review it
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Rajura » Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:58 am

Well, you could always make the circlets diamond and sapphire. Otherwise in my brief survey of it... it looks pretty good so far, I'll explore it more a bit later this week.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Kordosa » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:20 am

Crisu wrote:The number of periods will be reduced to five. This was a very difficult decision to make because we wanted to keep the traditional seven, but we would not be able to balance the Contestants properly in that format. This year we had 7 tiers of 7 girls each (+1 wildcard), and our schedule was 7 rounds in 7 periods. With the reduction to 35+1 girls per division, our lineup has to be 7 tiers of 5 girls each (+1 WC) scheduled for 7 rounds in 5 periods.
Is the number of tiers important? I mean, the tier system is really nothing more than an informal way to break the number of contestants into smaller groups, isn't it? It's not like the system has any real bearing on each contestant's individual performance. However, I do understand that the tier system is a convenient way to formulate the schedule, but in that case, couldn't there be five tiers of seven contestants each plus wildcard scheduled for five rounds in seven periods?
Crisu wrote:Contestants who lose a match will be awarded partial points based on their performance. Currently winners get 3 points and losers get 0. Next year, the loser will gain VF/VA points. For example, if girl A beats girl B by one vote, A gets 3 points and B gets 0.99. If a tie occurs, both girls get 1 point each. What this will do is make SDO a more accurate model of a Contestant's strength.
So unless there is a one-vote difference or a tie, points will be handled the same way as they were previously? Or am I missing something? Because since there are more voters than there were in previous years, one-vote differences seem to be much more uncommon, and I would think using a percentage-based difference would be better. For example, instead of a one-vote difference, it could be 0.5% difference or other such small difference. That would potentially allow more contestants opportunities for points since we still have some very close matches. For instance, Diamond 1's match on Sunday between Konata and Louise yielded a five-vote difference. I read this wrong. ._.
Crisu wrote:The new periods will occur in this order:
AquamarineAmethystRubyEmeraldTopaz
Inspiration comes from the classical planets in our solar system. Sapphire and Diamond will be dropped from the Regular Season. Whether or not they return in different forms (e.g. exhibition prizes) will likely be decided next year.
Crisu wrote:We associated the necklace periods with the planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, respectively. The initial consideration is the color white (diamond) for Venus, but white/gray is pretty boring for our graphics team so we gave it purple instead. Sapphire was dropped because we already have Aquamarine to represent blue.
I like the connection to the classical planets there. As far as the current color combination is concerned, that's probably what I would have picked if I were going by the Chinese elements under the East Asia section on that page. Just out of curiosity, did anyone propose color coordinating with the Sailor Senshi? :P
Rajura wrote:Well, you could always make the circlets diamond and sapphire.
Taking this a step further, you could also fit them with the sun for the Nova Circlet and the moon for the Stella Circlet. Nova circlet would fit with diamond perhaps since the diamond sparkles as brightly as the sun. And the moon is associated with the ocean tides on Earth, so sapphire could be a natural fit. If that's not satisfactory, there could be more necklace juggling to make everything fit better.
Last edited by Kordosa on Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Team Rocket Elite » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:25 am

Looks good to me.
Crisu wrote:Contestants who lose a match will be awarded partial points based on their performance. Currently winners get 3 points and losers get 0. Next year, the loser will gain VF/VA points. For example, if girl A beats girl B by one vote, A gets 3 points and B gets 0.99. If a tie occurs, both girls get 1 point each. What this will do is make SDO a more accurate model of a Contestant's strength.
Could I get more information about how this formula works? Is it based on vote difference or percentage difference?
Crisu wrote:The Necklace Showdown (Round 8) will include 1v1 inter-divisional matchups between Nova and Stella. I imagine there will be 10 or 15 on the ballot. Because we won't be able to showcase every possible combination, there will have to be some criteria for selecting who appears. We don't know what that is yet; it can be decided later on. We may come up with a way to rank everybody, or even take some community requests. These matches will be treated as exhibition for the time being, and we currently don't have plans to give awards for these matches or "advance" the winners in a sort of side tournament.
You could do it based on seeds. Nova 1 seed versus Stella 1 seed. Nove 36 seed vs Stella 36 seed.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by maglor » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:59 am

1

Misaka Mikoto
(Toaru Majutsu no Index) 4208
Shiina Mafuyu
(Seitokai no Ichizon) 1879

For above result, Misaka Mikoto will get 3 points for win, and Shiina Mafuyu will get 1879/4208 = 0.44653 points for her effort in defeat. The partial point will make every vote have more meaning.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Metaler » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:01 am

Nice.

I think it'll be nice to see a fresh new ISML. Keep up the good work, fellers.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by xcrossfacekillahx » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:59 am

I think the point system will really value every vote and not go to waste. Until now, it's like winning and losing by a small or big margin didn't matter except the VF,VA and VD
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Bastion » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:46 am

Kordosa wrote:
Crisu wrote:The new periods will occur in this order:
AquamarineAmethystRubyEmeraldTopaz
Inspiration comes from the classical planets in our solar system. Sapphire and Diamond will be dropped from the Regular Season. Whether or not they return in different forms (e.g. exhibition prizes) will likely be decided next year.
Crisu wrote:We associated the necklace periods with the planets Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, respectively. The initial consideration is the color white (diamond) for Venus, but white/gray is pretty boring for our graphics team so we gave it purple instead. Sapphire was dropped because we already have Aquamarine to represent blue.
I like the connection to the classical planets there. As far as the current color combination is concerned, that's probably what I would have picked if I were going by the Chinese elements under the East Asia section on that page. Just out of curiosity, did anyone propose color coordinating with the Sailor Senshi? :P
I considered the same connection, though dropping 'Saturn' for 'Earth' for the 'inner'/'outer' feel. I've always thought of Mercury as more of a red/orange/yellow color than the blue of the senshi mercury.

I also agree with dropping the gray/white of the diamond period. Given thought to experiment with different colors for the tables in the current voting code just because the color is rather boring. Maybe giving the side matches those colors to set them apart from the rest of the frames?

One further question, that really only affects the forums, would the seitokai continue to function next year? It seems a bit of a waste to have brought it up this year only to discard it next year because of such a big change in the rules.

Also noticing how the new icons for the divisions are broken into five, to represent the five rounds?
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Dymanes » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:52 pm

Reform is have to and we also need to increase its interest let more people like ISML
This year even if let Laura Bodewig win a match all show not realistic ,she is a genuine failure :(
Let failure ger more support and concern and let she honorable quit match it is what I focus on.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by RegalStar » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:43 pm

So, I'm using the new necklace rules to calculate the necklaces so far:

Aquamarine: Kanade 24.45+20=44.45, Mikoto 19.59+26=45.59
Amethyst: Yuki 19.24+26=45.24, Eucliwood 17.63+28=45.63

I think 1/3 of SDO is a lot larger than you guys imagined (relative to vote%).
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by RegalStar » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:50 pm

Dymanes wrote:Reform is have to and we also need to increase its interest let more people like ISML
This year even if let Laura Bodewig win a match all show not realistic ,she is a genuine failure :(
Let failure ger more support and concern and let she honorable quit match it is what I focus on.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by rainbowizard » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:09 pm

Crisu wrote:Contestants who lose a match will be awarded partial points based on their performance. Currently winners get 3 points and losers get 0. Next year, the loser will gain VF/VA points. For example, if girl A beats girl B by one vote, A gets 3 points and B gets 0.99. If a tie occurs, both girls get 1 point each. What this will do is make SDO a more accurate model of a Contestant's strength.
In this system, Shana objectors can vote for Shana!! XP
("Shana vs Mikuru? Then let's vote for Shana and reduce her SDO!" This is possible because voting for Shana makes Mikuru's VF/VA lower.)

The new SDO should be based on opponents' Votes For, not VF/VA.
By using VF, voting for Shana won't have any effect on her SDO.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by maglor » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:32 pm

RegalStar wrote:So, I'm using the new necklace rules to calculate the necklaces so far:

Aquamarine: Kanade 24.45+20=44.45, Mikoto 19.59+26=45.59
Amethyst: Yuki 19.24+26=45.24, Eucliwood 17.63+28=45.63

I think 1/3 of SDO is a lot larger than you guys imagined (relative to vote%).
That is why we are now using fractional points for the SoS portion. Using these SoS scores for the SDO gives rise to new SDO values. Many simulations has been done, and except in very rare case, SDO difference between any 7 - 0 characters will become much smaller, while difference between average SDO for 7 - 0 characters and 6 - 1 characters becomes larger. Had the fractional point system been in place for 2011, the SDO gap between Kanade and Mikoto would have been smaller for Aquamarine, small enough that Kanade would have won the Aquamarine Necklace under the 2012 fractional point + new score formula system. For Amethyst, fractional point system would have raised Yuki's SDO much more than Eucliwood's SDO, thus Yuki would still have won the necklace under new system.

In other word, that complicated looking fractional point system not only better illustrate character's performance, it also reduces the problem with 2011 version of SDO.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by JLoable91 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:49 pm

It's very good to see a new system but how will it be spread out during the year? Will the periods be longer?
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Chocola » Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:38 pm

In a recap of maglor's posts, we know what we are doing. SDO next year won't be SDO this year, and the SDO gap because 7-0's will be much smaller, which makes the formula a lot better if you do lots of analysis.

Currently we have 2 proposals for how to deal with circlets.

1) Simply have Sapphire Circlet and Diamond Circlet for each division winner.
2) Have Diamond Circlet and Diamond <insert ornament here> for both division winner. Award Sapphire <insert ornament here> for overall exhibition winner.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Bastion » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:05 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:2) Have Diamond Circlet and Diamond <insert ornament here> for both division winner. Award Sapphire <insert ornament here> for overall exhibition winner.
I prefer this idea, since Sapphire is a (base) color already used, use it to seperate the matches/rounds/segments in a different area and leave the 'circlets' of both as diamonds to state clearly that the 'circlets' are only marginally different, but of equal standing as the tops of their realms.

As for the color of diamond being rather uninteresting, perhaps a metalic shine to add some flare instead of flat color? I know the shine exists in computer code, it's used in board skins.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Rajura » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:16 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:In a recap of maglor's posts, we know what we are doing. SDO next year won't be SDO this year, and the SDO gap because 7-0's will be much smaller, which makes the formula a lot better if you do lots of analysis.

Currently we have 2 proposals for how to deal with circlets.

1) Simply have Sapphire Circlet and Diamond Circlet for each division winner.
2) Have Diamond Circlet and Diamond <insert ornament here> for both division winner. Award Sapphire <insert ornament here> for overall exhibition winner.
Well, I obviously am partial to my idea...

I don't quite know how the exhibition matches would work regarding the period awards... do we get rid of the new jewelry items that have been initiated this year? What happens to the diamond and sapphire awards for exhibition?

Granted, they do not have the longevity of the 7 periods, but it would be nice to keep them.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Chocola » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:38 am

Of course, we have to drop 2 jewelry items, but there will be an exhibition winner each period. The proposed Sapphire award would somehow be awarded in the post-season as a side tournament involving exhibition characters only.

EDIT: Just for clarification, we didn't change to 5 periods on the spur of the moment or just for the sake of change. There's actually a very good reasoning behind it and you'll have to talk to maglor to find out.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Eater-of-All » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:30 am

I like the sound of 7 matches / 5 periods more than 5 matches / 7 periods, so I don't mind. Though it's interesting how each year, there are less and less matchdays, and now there are less periods too. :lol: One thing's for sure: this new arrangement will definitely give more importance to each necklace, and people will rage more. But that's fun too.

For what to do with diamond and sapphire, I like the idea that diamond will be used for both Phase I winners, but sapphire seems pretty odd and random as a standalone theme for anything, IMO.
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Re: ISML 2012 Plans, v2

Post by Bastion » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:15 am

I don't remember seeing this issue brought up in either version of the rules, but recent suggestions in the write-ups has reminded me of a concern.
Currently we're given about a day and a half at best to present and edit write-ups before final collection is done, sometimes leading to sloppy workmanship. Is the gap between matches going to be enlarged for more time given, now that there are fewer rounds planned?
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