Captcha Announcement

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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by RegalStar » Fri May 02, 2014 3:45 am

I was talking about the captcha math question that we have now, not the chemistry question.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by avery-kun » Fri May 02, 2014 3:58 am

You're asking people to think and accept change... they'll complain at first, but then they'll come to like it. Give it a year, and people will complain that removing the math captcha will dumb down the voting pool or something.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by niwa87 » Fri May 02, 2014 4:38 am

May I give my opinion on this?

Not informing the voter if they answer the captcha wrongly might seems unfair to some people. It is true that the staff already announce today's rule in the news section but how many people actually read and know about it? People might answer incorrectly and didn't know their vote is not valid because they are unaware of the rule and assuming everything is fine since the page still loading to submitted page. At least, put a remark that their answer is wrong and need re-vote in the submitted page.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Momento10 » Fri May 02, 2014 5:58 am

KholdStare88 wrote:
Momento10 wrote:Alright, statistics class first, and math class now. I might as well learn all my math and statistics class here instead of what i get in school.
Well, we were considering this for our captcha:

Image

Not really, but we still made it as a joke.
Wow, I haven't calculated moles in a long time. Just for the hell of it, I'm going to try to answer the equation. Someone check if I am wrong.
SpoilerShow
M H2 = 2.0
M O2 = 32
(5.0 mol * 2.0 g/mol) + (2.3 mol * 32 g/mol) = x mol * 18 g/mol
10 + 73.6 = 18x
83.6 = 18x
x = 4.6

4.6 moles of H20
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Jiharo » Fri May 02, 2014 6:36 am

Momento10 wrote:
KholdStare88 wrote:
Momento10 wrote:Alright, statistics class first, and math class now. I might as well learn all my math and statistics class here instead of what i get in school.
Well, we were considering this for our captcha:

Image

Not really, but we still made it as a joke.
Wow, I haven't calculated moles in a long time. Just for the hell of it, I'm going to try to answer the equation. Someone check if I am wrong.
SpoilerShow
M H2 = 2.0
M O2 = 32
(5.0 mol * 2.0 g/mol) + (2.3 mol * 32 g/mol) = x mol * 18 g/mol
10 + 73.6 = 18x
83.6 = 18x
x = 4.6

4.6 moles of H20
Far too many steps. I finished calculating it within 2(or you can say, 1) steps.

2H2 + O2 = 2H2O(everyone who takes chem should know this elementary equation)

so since H2 is in excess, the no of moles of O2 will determine the number of moles of H2O formed.

since 1O2 = 2H2O
2.3 mol x 2 = 4.6 mol

So there you go.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Zefyris » Fri May 02, 2014 8:51 am

So the previous captcha was rejecting your vote right away if it wasn't good...
I was wondering if my answer to the previous type of captcha was taken correctly since the display after I answered seemed a bit bugged to me, and wasn't saying if it was good or not but since I never had to do it again, seems like it was taken correctly indeed. Never realized that it forced you to redo it again if not correct so I always assumed that it wasn't telling you, just like it's going to be from now on~

Anyway, simple math is okay for everyone, but isn't something like this extremely easy to bypass by a properly coded bot?
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Chocola » Fri May 02, 2014 9:25 am

Zefyris wrote:Anyway, simple math is okay for everyone, but isn't something like this extremely easy to bypass by a properly coded bot?
It's not going to be easy to bypass. Most of the staff has researched and pretty much know how captchas work and how they can be bypassed.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Fuijiwara » Fri May 02, 2014 1:39 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:
Zefyris wrote:Anyway, simple math is okay for everyone, but isn't something like this extremely easy to bypass by a properly coded bot?
It's not going to be easy to bypass. Most of the staff has researched and pretty much know how captchas work and how they can be bypassed.

There are exceptions though and some of them might be advanced enough to bypaass
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Crisu » Fri May 02, 2014 2:28 pm

Have some more support for us. :( We've learned a lot in the last month trying three different CAPTCHAs now and have made a lot of progress. I appreciate all of the constructive cricitism from everyone (it's what helps us get better), but sometimes I feel like the responses are just doubtful of us.

There is no perfect CAPTCHA. We as a Staff surely aren't perfect, but please let me assure you that we are definitely trying.

The term in the network security field is Defense in Depth. We're applying several techniques that hopefully will sum up to a maximum number of bad votes prevented and good votes allowed. The CAPTCHA is one layer of defense; it stops a lot of cheaters. Yes, there are exceptions, and we are researching and learning more about them every day. So for those advanced enough to bypass, we have other methods. There is the 3-minute timer. All the arenas and positions are shuffled each time the ballot loads. And our entire vote-checking procedure, which has had six years to grow and evolve since ISML 2008.

We are monitoring the voting every day and certainly researching and learning about the effects and impacts of any new features we implement. This includes both good and bad consequences. We wouldn't put ourselves (and the voters, too) through so much trouble if we didn't feel it was worth it and truly beneficial to the League.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Eibbor82 » Fri May 02, 2014 4:01 pm

We shouldn't be having this debate in the first place....

The staff's trying their hardest, guys. Be happy they aren't requiring anything more than simple math.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by tehyc » Fri May 02, 2014 4:23 pm

Eibbor82 wrote:The staff's trying their hardest, guys. Be happy they aren't requiring anything more than simple math.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Fuijiwara » Fri May 02, 2014 5:50 pm

tehyc wrote:
Eibbor82 wrote:The staff's trying their hardest, guys. Be happy they aren't requiring anything more than simple math.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Bastion » Fri May 02, 2014 7:23 pm

Crisu wrote:
SpoilerShow
Have some more support for us. :( We've learned a lot in the last month trying three different CAPTCHAs now and have made a lot of progress. I appreciate all of the constructive cricitism from everyone (it's what helps us get better), but sometimes I feel like the responses are just doubtful of us.

There is no perfect CAPTCHA. We as a Staff surely aren't perfect, but please let me assure you that we are definitely trying.

The term in the network security field is Defense in Depth. We're applying several techniques that hopefully will sum up to a maximum number of bad votes prevented and good votes allowed. The CAPTCHA is one layer of defense; it stops a lot of cheaters. Yes, there are exceptions, and we are researching and learning more about them every day. So for those advanced enough to bypass, we have other methods. There is the 3-minute timer. All the arenas and positions are shuffled each time the ballot loads. And our entire vote-checking procedure, which has had six years to grow and evolve since ISML 2008.

We are monitoring the voting every day and certainly researching and learning about the effects and impacts of any new features we implement. This includes both good and bad consequences. We wouldn't put ourselves (and the voters, too) through so much trouble if we didn't feel it was worth it and truly beneficial to the League
.
I do see the reason that the captcha is in place, and support it, I'm just stating my opinion that I don't think this is quite the right way to do it. I understand the process it's going through, the world would be a much different place if these processes weren't needed, but they are, and eventually things will get to a steady point. I just don't think we're there yet.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Chingy » Fri May 02, 2014 7:45 pm

It's quite funny how I did the captcha wrongly because I didn't even realize it was a math question! xD
I just typed in the numbers that I saw. Afterwards, when I read this thread, I was like, "uh oh".
Anyway, I understand the need for the captchas, it's really important in cases such as this... I guess.
By the way, I think if you make the numbers more obvious, and the symbols less obvious (or close to oblivious), it just might deceive the bots into just taking the numbers in...
Well, I'm not sure though, 'cause I have no idea how captchas work.
TBH, the current captcha is making me dizzzzzzyy. >w<



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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Chocola » Fri May 02, 2014 8:15 pm

For this match only (Aquamarine 8), we will accept people who type into the box the exact numbers without signs.

If the question was 3 x 6 + 20 / 5, and your answer was 36205, the vote will be counted.

In future matches you are expected to evaluate the expression.
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Chingy » Fri May 02, 2014 8:54 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:For this match only (Aquamarine 8), we will accept people who type into the box the exact numbers without signs.

If the question was 3 x 6 + 20 / 5, and your answer was 36205, the vote will be counted.

In future matches you are expected to evaluate the expression.
Ah, that's good... pheeww.

Well, the answer to that is 22 right? Right?? If I got it wrong, I should just quit voiting. :x

Yes sir!



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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Chocola » Fri May 02, 2014 9:15 pm

18 + 4 = 22 so yes
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Chingy » Fri May 02, 2014 9:46 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:18 + 4 = 22 so yes
The answer is now clear. I shall solve all the captchas, and free them of their suffering, and make the votes happy.
IT'S CAPTCHA TIME!!! Oh wait, no... IT'S VOTING TIME!!!
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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by Chocola » Sat May 03, 2014 3:30 am

Hikari-chan just proposed a new captcha for us:

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Re: Captcha Announcement

Post by tehyc » Sat May 03, 2014 3:53 am

KholdStare88 wrote:Hikari-chan just proposed a new captcha for us:

Image
No this please, my eyes pain.
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