ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by clannad » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:17 am

OK Then we will comprehensive boycott the next years ISML. In tieba we have archived the most similar opinion that it will not work well. Also we have strongly disagreed with the Tiara's exhibition match rules at this moment.
PLZ think twice. It's ok you guys don't care our thought, we can ignore your game as well. I am not threaten but If you find a obviously drop of the total vote. PLZ remember what I am saying today.
Don't forgot which regions props up the ISML's voting ballots.
Smartboy's post already got more and more replies now. The first a few hours only got 40 replies just due to it's from 7am-12am, almost all people are in school or working.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by clannad » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:34 am

And for the tournament Champion game's rules. We have already got 8-10 topics and near 400 replies in total. I can hardly find a positive feedback in those replies. That's the current situation.
I don't know why all the changes leave such disagree and negative comments in tieba. But the truth is "50-60% people tsukkomi 2015 will be the last year of ISML. 20% people support new rules, 20-30% remains said 'I don't care because I dont play anymore with new rules."
Here is a conclusion about what happening on tieba. As most of them cannot use english to communicate here, I'll convey the situation.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by matchbaby » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:41 am

guys, I think you should think twice before

Yesterday, you suddenly cancel the Nova and Stella's new point system,
today, you suddenly re-propose this to Nova and stella division just because of a few people's view.

Questions:
1. Give a reason why 34-1 can rank higher than 35-0 (Don't say to me that it's meaningless as this is not the requirement of circlet and PS2) as we calculated that EVEN THERE HAS NO UPSET, THE 35-0 WILL RANK LOWER THAN 34-1, SO SCHEDULE PLAY MORE IMPORTANT ROLE THAN STRENGTH!
2. How can you sure that the increasing in vote number in Topaz must be voters but not mv? The new system is made for MV.
3. Do you sure the vote will not decrease? Ban tiara, use new system to hurt fans, welcome mv, is this what you want?

Lastly, hope you guys change your mind before thinking twice, as no one will respect you if you always change your mind becuz of a few people's view

Finally, hope you still remember the aim for ISML-- make anime more popular, have a positive competition to find a "Saimoe" character.
ISML hopes to find the most moe among anime girls, and it's up to you to decide by casting your vote!
1. Increasing exposure of Japanese animation and pop culture to the public,
2. Discovering which anime character is the most moe as decided by majority rule,
3. Maintaining a community and network of anime enthusiasts,
4. Planning and executing events responsibly, ethically, and efficiently.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by clannad » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:00 am

FOR MY OWN POINTS, as I said yesterday I am almost one of the most important people who prompted the tieba for ISML and propagated this game in baidu, I certainly want that my Tieba become more prosperity with a better ISML. But now I am completely worried about that because I almost cannot find something positive there. I even hardly find a topic or post to argue whether the new things are good. All I can see is "don't care" or "disappointment" attitude.
I have no ways to change those player's opinion, but I am fully concerned what my tieba will be in the next year.

PS: I ALMOST FIND SOMETHING POSITIVE NOW, THOUGH NOT VERY MUCH AND CLEAR. It's in the post said that "the new system will only be used in male games" and the post said "the former champion will be able to participate the regular season"...I don't know what happened because I am in sleep at that time
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Chocola » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:51 am

I will leave these posts up for our community here to digest. China will boycott ISML if we implement these rules. Thoughts?
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by matchbaby » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:52 am

Kholdy wrote:I will leave these posts up for our community here to digest. China will boycott ISML if we implement these rules. Thoughts?
Teiba doesn't represent China
But I am sure many people will ragequit -_-
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Reverend » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:59 am

Views maybe different, but the way I see it:
Example:
Main Clause: Asuna, whom first expected as a strong side in Stella, ends up as mid to low table runner (12-20 place)
Her form is perfect during Aquamarine and Amethyst, her form is bad in the remaining 3 season.
(She scores 14 victories in aquamarine and amethyst, 2 in ruby, 1 in emerald, and 3 in topaz)

Match Ruby 3: Asuna vs Mashiro
Asuna won her previous 16 matches (14+2)
While Mashiro already lost once (against Kotori just last match)
Result: Mashiro won, she stole Asuna's point

And since that match, her voters feels it's pointless to continue in ISML 2015 because she already lost against the one whom most of her fans wants to defeat (Mashiro defeated Asuna a lot of times, yes?) and they choose to leave the ISML for the rest of RS.
And that destroyed Asuna's form.
In shorter words: Mashiro defeated Asuna so bad and thoroughly that her fans feels there is no point to continue.

Match Topaz 2: Asuna vs Kotori
Kotori won against a weaken Asuna, she stole Asuna's already weaken point

The question: who deserves more point for her victory against Asuna and who gains more point?
My answer: Mashiro deserves more since she is the mastermind of Asuna's destruction and Mashiro (supposedly) earns more from Asuna in this scenario.

While it looks like schedule matters more, this system also means: who faced a tougher peril and manages to win against all odds is better rewarded.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Isn't that how the world runs: chances don't come to everyone, and usually those who have an easier start is more successful in life.
But those who face great perils and pass through them deserve to gain success and what they want more than those with easier start.
And this system just make sure it happens.

btw,
don't people in tieba have account here? (they may not reply and they had trouble reading english, but at least they had account, right?)
Then maybe we could run a poll...
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Chocola » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:28 am

matchbaby wrote:Yesterday, you suddenly cancel the Nova and Stella's new point system,
today, you suddenly re-propose this to Nova and stella division just because of a few people's view.
Okay, this is the misunderstanding. These threads are made for BRAINSTORM, which means nothing are yet decided. When it is decided, Crisu will make a formal announcement in the News section of the main site! Now, I appreciate what you and smartboyhw are doing by translating these threads to tieba so they know what the staff is doing. However, you need to make it clear that these threads are NOT FINAL! There is a sentiment in tieba that the staff changes their minds often, leading to bad credibility. You need to make them understand that there has been a miscommunication, and we are still using these threads to discuss. Please make it clear in tieba as soon as possible that we are still discussing, and trying to see the possibilities of other ideas.

Ask tehyc, who asked me if the changes are final, to which I said:

[04:58] <Tsumiki> we're still waiting to see if we will use point system
matchbaby wrote:Questions:
1. Give a reason why 34-1 can rank higher than 35-0 (Don't say to me that it's meaningless as this is not the requirement of circlet and PS2) as we calculated that EVEN THERE HAS NO UPSET, THE 35-0 WILL RANK LOWER THAN 34-1, SO SCHEDULE PLAY MORE IMPORTANT ROLE THAN STRENGTH!
2. How can you sure that the increasing in vote number in Topaz must be voters but not mv? The new system is made for MV.
3. Do you sure the vote will not decrease? Ban tiara, use new system to hurt fans, welcome mv, is this what you want?
1. People are still stuck on 35-0 > 34-1 because they do not truly embrace the point system. Yes, it can happen that 34-1 has a higher score than 35-0. Now here's what you have to consider. Under the old system, you can only GAIN points, so it makes sense that if you have 35 wins, then you have more points than 34 wins. However, under the new system, you can both GAIN and LOSE points. That means "playing the game" only on your 35 wins is actually only playing half the game. You have to play the game so that your opponents are LOSING points, in addition to your character GAINING points. Regardless of what the schedule is, you can always snipe a T1 in T1 vs. T1 match, or T1 vs. T2 match. As maglor said, we can put a password to the schedule and release the password at the end so everyone can see we did not manipulate the schedule.

2. Because multivotes are no longer a concern. I hear people talking about VPNs being impossible to detect, and they are worldwide. Yup! We have seen and detected this. People are using VPNs around the world to multivote in this year's postseason, and we caught them all. The concern is that tieba doesn't trust that we can catch them, because they don't realize what field Crisu works in. It seems the attitude in tieba right now is that the staff cannot catch multivotes, so we have to deal with it, and multivoters can exploit the new system. And there's no way to convince them that yes, the staff can catch them all. If let's say we reveal that 14590 illegal votes were caught in the championship match, then some people would use that information against us, such as "the staff is removing lots of votes to manipulate who wins the final."

3. We are not sure the votes will not decrease, at least in short term. However, we are sure these changes are crucial for a ISML in the long term. The new scoring system will generate more interest in regular season. The ToC change will promote more anime diversity and bring in more fans. We may lose some voters, but we will gain new ones. Now, it's left in your hands to make it happen. Let me tell you what I mean.

As an example, the staff doesn't have much of a presence in tieba because none of us can speak Chinese, which means a few people who knows English there can "control" what the masses think and the staff does not know this and cannot give our side of the story. So if you oppose to the changes, and keep telling new voters in tieba to stop voting in ISML, then you are not giving ISML a chance. Let them make their own decisions. Let them try out ISML and decide for themselves. Let them see what you are missing out.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Lian » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:14 am

Reverend wrote: btw,
don't people in tieba have account here? (they may not reply and they had trouble reading english, but at least they had account, right?)
Then maybe we could run a poll...
For most of them, i dont think they do, even they do they haven't reached 50 posts...
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by matchbaby » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:22 am

KS
I translate your reply to them.

Only one opinion, you blame me, I am out. :oops:
You know how many times I talk to them in the view of pro-staff ?
You know how I trust you guys?
You said we control Teiba's mind?
unbelievable
I am very angry
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Lian » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:28 am

matchbaby wrote:KS
I translate your reply to them.

Only one opinion, you blame me, I am out. :oops:
You know how many times I talk to them in the view of pro-staff ?
You know how I trust you guys?
You said we control Teiba's mind?
unbelievable
I am very angry
All right, i ensure you cant control Tieba's mind, and i shall keep watch on you :lol:
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by matchbaby » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:31 am

Lian wrote:
matchbaby wrote:KS
I translate your reply to them.

Only one opinion, you blame me, I am out. :oops:
You know how many times I talk to them in the view of pro-staff ?
You know how I trust you guys?
You said we control Teiba's mind?
unbelievable
I am very angry
All right, i ensure you cant control Tieba's mind, and i shall keep watch on you :lol:
I am done, you ask smartboy.
I can't put up on those who blame me (or us) even I(or we) haven't do anything.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Chocola » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:33 am

matchbaby wrote:KS
I translate your reply to them.

Only one opinion, you blame me, I am out. :oops:
You know how many times I talk to them in the view of pro-staff ?
You know how I trust you guys?
You said we control Teiba's mind?
unbelievable
I am very angry
You misunderstand me. I am NOT blaming you. I am saying that the tieba people MAY not understand that the posts on these threads are NOT final and thus saying the staff is changing their minds too much. Sorry if you were offended. I actually know you do trust us, and we thank you for that. :)

EDIT: The "control" comment was mostly for clannad, who said that he is "an important person" (he said that for a reason) which leads me into thinking he can try to control the ISML tieba if things don't go his way.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Lian » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:39 am

Kholdy wrote:
matchbaby wrote:KS
I translate your reply to them.

Only one opinion, you blame me, I am out. :oops:
You know how many times I talk to them in the view of pro-staff ?
You know how I trust you guys?
You said we control Teiba's mind?
unbelievable
I am very angry
You misunderstand me. I am NOT blaming you. I am saying that the tieba people MAY not understand that the posts on these threads are NOT final and thus saying the staff is changing their minds too much. Sorry if you were offended. I actually know you do trust us, and we thank you for that. :)
that's what i said :D dont be that worry, we still have time to talk


Kholdy wrote:EDIT: The "control" comment was mostly for clannad, who implies that he is "an important person" (he said that for a reason) which leads me into thinking he can try to contrl ISML tieba because things don't go his way.
he's administrator of that tieba and i think he has taken his responsibility for his words. dont worry about that anyone may "control" ISML tieba, for there are dozens of people paying attention to here.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Chocola » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:48 am

Okay, with those worries out of the way, the only thing I can say is this:

Change is something that should not be hindered. ISML needs changes to go forward, and voters needs to give them a chance. You have my promise that if something doesn't work out, we will go ahead and revert those changes and use the old points system if needed. But give us a chance to show you that this system works.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Desufire » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:50 am

clannad wrote:OK Then we will comprehensive boycott the next years ISML. In tieba we have archived the most similar opinion that it will not work well. Also we have strongly disagreed with the Tiara's exhibition match rules at this moment.
PLZ think twice. It's ok you guys don't care our thought, we can ignore your game as well. I am not threaten but If you find a obviously drop of the total vote. PLZ remember what I am saying today.
Don't forgot which regions props up the ISML's voting ballots.
Smartboy's post already got more and more replies now. The first a few hours only got 40 replies just due to it's from 7am-12am, almost all people are in school or working.
This is good. Maybe with less obnoxious, opinionated, self-entitled tieba voters*, we can finally get more voters in ISML from other big websites (like reddit or wherehaveyou)

* Not all tieba voters are this.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Reverend » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:53 am

actually I was about to ask about what kind of scenario do tieba people fear,
but since Kholdy has bring it to this...

btw, Crisu actually catch 14590 multivotes?
wow 0_0
I know he's good, but that is just a bit too overkill
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Desufire » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:54 am

Reverend wrote:actually I was about to ask about what kind of scenario do tieba people fear,
but since Kholdy has bring it to this...

btw, Crisu actually catch 14590 multivotes?
wow 0_0
I know he's good, but that is just a bit too overkill
It was just an example, the ACTUAL number is unknown.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Reverend » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:56 am

Desufire wrote:
Reverend wrote:actually I was about to ask about what kind of scenario do tieba people fear,
but since Kholdy has bring it to this...

btw, Crisu actually catch 14590 multivotes?
wow 0_0
I know he's good, but that is just a bit too overkill
It was just an example, the ACTUAL number is unknown.
lol I was kidding :lol:
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Re: ISML 2015 - Operational Changes

Post by Lian » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:58 am

Kholdy wrote:Okay, with those worries out of the way, the only thing I can say is this:

Change is something that should not be hindered. ISML needs changes to go forward, and voters needs to give them a chance. You have my promise that if something doesn't work out, we will go ahead and revert those changes and use the old points system if needed. But give us a chance to show you that this system works.
Well, i agree with you, but before that, we shall discuss if the system is good enough for us to use a whole year by testing it. let me give out a question first, according to the rule, ideally a character of "34-1" who lose in the last match of the season may be beaten by "30-5", if that character lose the matches at the beginning of the season, that's odd. On the other hand, a character lose around 30 matches will have her score less than 1, that's too cruel result for her fans, if the score is reduced from 100 instead of start from 0
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