ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

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ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Chocola » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:03 pm

Starting in 2015, we will now have a Tournament of Champions, which follows Postseason.
  • A Tournament of Champions will be held after each year that includes all ISML Tiara winners.
  • Tiara winners will bypass preliminaries, regular season, and postseason to enter the Tournament of Champions.
  • If the Tiara winner won while in the Nova Division, then she will participate in the next Regular Season as a Stella contestant.
  • The winner of the tournament for that year will receive a poster and will be placed in the Winners Gallery.
Format
  • The Tournament of Champions will use single-elimination on 8 contestants.
  • Eight years after winning a Tiara, that contestant may re-enter Regular Season, if she can pass through the Preliminary Period.
Reason: Ever since 2011 or so, we started seeing people vote in postseason a certain way, some "anti-voting" the Tiara winner, and some voting so a contestant could get multiple Tiara. This led to some petty accusations, but as a whole, people believe that it lessens the value of those who win the Tiara. We no longer want to see winners being called as "not deserving" a Tiara because people think she was a tool in "anti-voting" a Tiara winner out. After some careful deliberations, the staff decides that leaving in Tiara winners will prompt these same hate discussions every year, and instead we can make a tournament just for them. We think this is the most fair decision and hope that all voters will understand.

Alternative Idea
  • Tiara winners can still participate in Regular Season, but are not eligible for postseason.
  • The two circlets are moved back to Regular Season performance, so Tiara winners can still win necklaces and circlets.
  • The circlets would be awarded based on 1) Points (W-L-T), then tie-broken by 2) Score. This way, if you go 35-0 you will surely get the necklace based on having 105 points. If we have multiple characters going 34-1, then the scoring system will break that tie.
  • Postseason 1 will be reworked. The Top 4 will automatically enter Postseason 2 without going further. We will do relegation for places 5-8 so that characters who lose on the very first day are not automatically out.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:00 am

I don't want to lie. This just sounds so hateful to me. There is no need to do comparisons among our Tiara holders after most their animes have finished for years. Why we want to see who is the best of them, this makes no sense to me. I don't want to see some of them get slaughtered by some others, which is entirely tragic. Furthermore, the winner will get another poster and be placed in the Winners Gallery, what's that??
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:12 am

Moreover, this is basically the same as disqualifying those winners.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Chocola » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:16 am

Hold on, do you think the STAFF is being hateful? Maybe you're misreading something.

EDIT: I phrased something incorrectly in the first post. Let me put this in simpler words. Year after the year, the staff puts in much effort into the tournament only to see people call the Tiara winner hateful things like not deserving, or only used to take down someone else and not the real winner. We're sick of that. Think of it as working for the entire year then have people saying our work is for nothing because we failed at finding the real winner. We don't want to take these insults anymore, and this was in our opinion the best solution.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:44 am

Kholdy wrote:Hold on, do you think the STAFF is being hateful? Maybe you're misreading something.

EDIT: I phrased something incorrectly in the first post.
No, I only think the idea of Tournament of Champions is hateful. I understand you always try to make ISML better. Btw, you've got one BIG thing to reply in another thread.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:02 am

Kholdy, there are already lots of discussions or disagreements caused by the operational change & structural change issued several days before. This another new decision is going to initiate more chaos among the voters. Can we just make the 2015 ISML come in through a more "peaceful" way?
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:09 am

Furthermore, as clannad said in another thread, more complicated rules can only make ISML lose voters. Though I don't entirely agree with him, at least I think those new rules will make it difficult for those ISML new participants/beginners to start. Do you agree?
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Chocola » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:14 am

I believe that these are the last changes ISML needs to maintain balanced participation throughout all phases of the competition. You have my word that there will be very minimal changes from now on, and 2015 will have the last big change.

I don't think the score stealing system is hard to understand at all. When you beat someone, you will gain some points and the loser lose that many points. The concept is easy to understand.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:18 am

Kholdy wrote:I believe that these are the last changes ISML needs to maintain balanced participation throughout all phases of the competition. You have my word that there will be very minimal changes from now on, and 2015 will have the last big change.
OK, I trust you though this new decision really makes me feel bad. At least you guys are working hard for this league.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by DarknessHid » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:21 am

To be honest, I think this is a really cool idea!
Especially since there is so much anti-voting to avoid repeat tiara winners ):
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Chocola » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:33 am

DarknessHid wrote:To be honest, I think this is a really cool idea!
Especially since there is so much anti-voting to avoid repeat tiara winners ):
Thanks for understanding why we're doing this. It may only be a bit of an annoyance to the voters, but for the staff we feel the blame for people saying the Tiara winner is not deserved.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Sphire » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:36 am

Oh, I think I died a little reading this (if I understood it right).
Kholdy wrote:... but as a whole, people believe that it lessens the value of those who win the Tiara.
As a whole? Really? Do the majority here think some Tiara winners are undeserving? That is surprising news to me.
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The ramblings of hateful idiots whose ultimate primary gripe is that 'their' fav didn't win the Tiara is not worth listening to. If they can't articulate proper constructive criticism, their opinion is trivial. There is NO undeserving Tiara winner, as there is equally no character who is 'born' with the right to win a Tiara. Yea, I've seen those posters going on about how Kotori is undeserving. I would've called them out and got in their face if I knew their pathetic verbal diarrhea was going to influence things.
I have to admit (as if it wasn't already obvious), I don't like it. In my eyes, the whining of a few is affecting the tournament. There seems like a lot of potential cons too.
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1) Voting numbers will drop. Removing 4 pretty powerful characters from Stella will also remove voters. Case in point: Tiara semi 2 had way more voters than Tiara semi 1 for obvious reasons.
2) We'll no longer see Kotori compete on a regular basis next year. Only 1 year in ISML seems sadly short.
3) This does nothing to stop anyone saying the 2015 Tiara winner is 'undeserving'. Like seriously, I don't think it'll stop at all. Anti-voting will still occur, just not one specific type of anti-voting.
4) In relation to point 3, depending on how much fanfare is put into the Tourney of Champs, the Tiara will almost certainly be of less 'value' than winning the Tourney of Champs (ToC). Further undermining the new Tiara winner (unless she wins the ToC, which if that happens all the time, makes this seem pointless).
5) Will fans return during the ToC schedule? Like really, are we expecting those who showed up before on a regular basis to support their Tiara bearers to come back next year for ToC if they leave (as in with point 1).
6) I remember a number of people thinking necklace winners were undeserving too. Should Mashiro be banned from competing in Topaz necklace next year just because people don't like repeat winners?
7) Is there a point in differentiating Nova & Stella now? If I remember right, the whole point behind 2 divisions was that it gave new characters a chance to compete without getting hammered by old characters. You are taking away some very strong old characters now, so do we need 2 divisions?
8) Shiro might never face Kanade or Mikoto ever. That's just sad. I look forward to things like that, am I alone?
I feel like I could list more, but in the end, this is your tourney, and the staff will decide how it goes. I understand where this is coming from. Necklace rules were changed because of repeat winners, and looking back, I say that was a good decision. But ultimately necklaces were 'irrelevant' or 'insignificant', just something extra. The Tiara on the other hand, was the final goal. The ultimate trophy. And everyone has a fair chance at it. Whether once or more. Truly, so what if Kanade wins twice. I'd hate it, for sure, but its not the system, its the voters. It is up to them to change.

Anti-voting is what it is. Would the staff prefer abstains? I voted for Kotori over Kanade for no other reason than to see a new winner. But that's because I don't really care for either character. Should I just abstain then? I usually find it sad that fans leave when their 'fav' has been eliminated, which is why I generally stay and vote. I don't really like anyone to some huge degree that was in post-season. Was it better that I just not have turned up?

This feels weird to me, heck, part of me thinks permanent retirement might be better for Tiara winners. Have I misunderstood something?
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Chocola » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:40 am

It is actually not a few. This forum is actually very positive about ISML as a whole, where a certain place bashes the staff with every result.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:40 am

Kholdy wrote:for the staff we feel the blame for people saying the Tiara winner is not deserved.
clannad wrote: After all this forum is a very small environment for the ISML. In most cases it cannot reflect the whole situation.
People saying the Tiara winner is not deserved is MINORITY. Please believe me.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Magnux7 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:41 am

I think it sounds nice, but also unfair.
It's nice in the way you described Kholdy, maybe now there won't be as much hate if we do it this way.
Another good thing is that other characters without tiara and new characters in ISML will have a better chance of winning.

On the other hand though, the tournament of champions will most likely be very unfair for old tiara winners.
Akiyama Mio, Fate and Hinagiku will probably just get sweeped right away.
I'm pretty sure it will end up being a tournament where Misaka Mikoto and Tachibana Kanade endlesly face against each other in the finale :L
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:47 am

Sorry, I don't want to add more, but I just cannot stop. If Kotori had won 2014 tiara without defeating Kanade in the semifinal, I would say she is NOT deserved the Tiara.
Btw Sphire, very strong arguments. good

A certain place bashes the staff with every result. I admit this, but this is mainly because those guys are tsundere. Actually, Kotori winning this year's Tiara works pretty fine with those people.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by RailWarrior » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:02 am

I would understand barring them from PS, what with all the anti-repeat sentiment; but what's the point in barring them from regular season as well? Just pick the contestants with the next highest score to advance.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Chocola » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:15 am

Let me put in a different angle. We do not want people voting because it's anti-Tiara OR for multiple Tiara. What we want is for people to vote who they like best, WITHOUT considering if that means she or someone else already won a Tiara, because that is NOT part of our mission statement. I'm claiming that it is an "outside factor" not related to moe, if you are considering whether someone has already won a Tiara during voting. Hence, we are doing the only thing we could to bring voting BACK to being more about moe, which is to remove Tiara winners. That's our stance and we want to make this happen, or else we feel the contest is no longer about moe during postseason. It will take some time to get used to, but we are certain this is best for the future of ISML.
RailWarrior wrote:I would understand barring them from PS, what with all the anti-repeat sentiment; but what's the point in barring them from regular season as well? Just pick the contestants with the next highest score to advance.
People will just hate that more. Why have someone in regular season if they can't participate in postseason? I have no problem with the idea, by the way, I just think more people will complain.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:31 am

Should I call you an idealist? As Sphire said, anti-voting is always associated with ISML or any type of moe contest. Anti-Tiara is only one of its forms. If your goal is to bring voting BACK to being moe-oriented, I sadly say that this dream will never come true. The nature of human beings will keep make the matches "dirty", and never stop. Even if we take out the Tiara winners, the anti-voting in postseason would still be intense. People ONLY want the one or two characters they support to win the Tiara.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:42 am

I apologize that my mind may be too strong this time, but I'm speaking the truth.
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