ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Reverend » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:54 am

no, for Kotori's case, she just compete in RS, but not eligible for PS.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by RailWarrior » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:59 am

I support option 2.

I just don't like the idea of "You're too popular, so you're banned."
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by matchbaby » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:03 am

The reason why I choose Tiara can go into RS but not PS is that "tiara" is a honor, it should not be a punish.
Also, is it fair to ban a character from the necklace ad circlet chance? Remember that Kanade only have Ruby and Emerald left.

If finally we really ban them from RS, my feeling is, you guys afraid someone get the seven necklace prize, or even didn't think about that, so you guys want to stop this.
(Shana will not have this chance, don't dream)

Btw, if there has no circlet in PS1, I support to combine PS1 with PS2.
Double elimination seems a good idea to give character one more chance if we combine PS as the grouping may be messy thanks to the new points system.

In addition, the "PS" for tiara is this new tournament, but can we ONLY include the tiara who can go into RS? In order to avoid a tiara being "crushed".
But if you guys really want to crush the previous tiara, well, I just accept it.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:37 am

For Kotori's sake, I'll go with option 2.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by 10ZHAbin » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:43 am

Just one question, if Mikoto and Kanade had began to wither down like Fate, Hina and Mio after claiming the Tiara, will this still happen?
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Chocola » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:45 am

By the way, combining PS1 and PS2 doesn't seem like a good idea right now. Kotori won the Tiara after losing twice in postseason, so we cannot just have single-elimination anymore. But having a double-elimination with 32 characters is out of the question, because it is long and complicated. Having some kind of partial DE will result in complicated rules. Therefore, we are probably keeping PS1 and PS2, altered a bit, which is a very good compromise of giving characters "second chances" like Kotori.

aka if we make PS just one big single-elimination match where if you lose one and you're out, people will claim Kotori's win is not deserving and just a fluke.
10ZHAbin wrote:Just one question, if Mikoto and Kanade had began to wither down like Fate, Hina and Mio after claiming the Tiara, will this still happen?
The ToC is not about only Mikoto and Kanade. If older winners get a new season (I hear MSLN ViVid is confirmed) and become strong, then we would love for them to win the ToC.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by matchbaby » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:58 am

btw, maglor and KS, I have thought a chance
What about in 2016 ISML, Fate return ISML strongly and grab the top 16 spot.
but the new tournament only let the previous 8 tiara compete,
as a result, where goes Fate? PS or the new tournament? Or simply banned?
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Chocola » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:00 am

We will re-introduce her to the Tournament of Champions, if she is knocked out.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Sphire » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:46 am

Damn, I didn't think I'd be the only one who wanted the Tiara bearers to remain, even in PS. I guess I am the odd one out.
tehyc wrote:
- Like avery-kun said, this can avoid the question of "What poster should we give whosoever?" before the period start.
Weirdly enough, this has swayed me to go with Option 1. I mean, might as well. It'll make the necklace matches a lot more interesting I feel. Having the Tiara bearers in RS (without it being of any significance to PS), seems pointless to me. And if the ideal is that voters are of a 'moe' fanbase rather than a specific character fanbase, then if we lose those character fanbases, so be it. I've heard how older voters might not even watch new anime, but still vote just because the old characters are there. Getting rid of that mentality is likely a plus. Having the likes of Kanade, Mikoto and Kuroneko removed from RS will probably also mean less series voting too, which might be a good thing overall.

And while Kotori would've only had one proper year (technically, even with option 2 it's not a proper year), she has a Tiara. So that is more than awesome enough. And she can go grab the ToC belt.

Plus, the rest of the changes have been made to accomodate Option 1, and I kinda like those other changes listed. That new scoring system sounds neato. And hell, with Option 1, Azusa is WAY more likely to get a necklace...
Option 1 also means the new Tiara winner will have had a much better opportunity at getting a necklace the same year.

So yea, Option 2 doesn't do enough for me. And the compromise doesn't seem worth it. I don't particularly like the ToC either, but that's the same. So, I vote for Option 1, if people are taking count.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:54 am

Sphire wrote:Damn, I didn't think I'd be the only one who wanted the Tiara bearers to remain, even in PS. I guess I am the odd one out.
No you're not, but compromise seems to be the only choice now (sad).
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by 10ZHAbin » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:08 am

If it comes down that Tiara Winner will not participate in RS and/or Postseason, I propose in the Charter, avoid using pejorative language such as "banned", "retired", "get out" or "removed". Use words like "graduate", "advance" or "step up from" to help ease out the temporary negative reaction from the voters, try and make it sound positive.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Veon » Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:07 am

WTF?
Tiara Winners will not participate in RS? Shittiest idea ever! What next? Banned necklace holder? For example: banned Mashiro from topaz?
tehyc wrote: - Like avery-kun said, this can avoid the question of "What poster should we give whosoever?" before the period start.
Next year if option 1 would be chosen:
"What poster should we give Shiro?"

The compromise option (2) sound much better. But still i prefer the system that we have now.
10ZHAbin wrote:If it comes down that Tiara Winner will not participate in RS and/or Postseason, I propose in the Charter, avoid using pejorative language such as "banned", "retired", "get out" or "removed". Use words like "graduate", "advance" or "step up from" to help ease out the temporary negative reaction from the voters, try and make it sound positive.
They can say whatever. We still know that they want banned some characters like Kanade and Mikoto.
Sphire wrote:Damn, I didn't think I'd be the only one who wanted the Tiara bearers to remain, even in PS. I guess I am the odd one out.
You are not alone.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by minhtam1638 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:11 pm

Edit: delete please. Can't do it from iPhone 4
Last edited by minhtam1638 on Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Magnux7 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:14 pm

I'm okay with option 2 being chosen, but I'll still vote for option 1.
As many others here, I like the idea of a more competetive Aquamarine period instead of thinking "What poster should we give Kanade/Mikoto?"
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by minhtam1638 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:44 pm

I propose a counter option. I call it Option 3.

Option 3 is as follows:

A) Go with everything in option 2.
B) In addition, no contestant will be allowed to win the same jewel she has won before. So for example, neither Kanade, Mikoto, or any previous Aquamarine winner can be eligible to win the necklace again.
C) From this point forward, any character that completes the collection of all 7 jewels AND the tiara will be retired. A special Hall of Fame section will be created to honor each of those contestants' achievements. These characters will no longer be able to participate in future main seasons going forward, but will be able to enter the Tournament of Champions if they qualify to do so.
D) To ensure all contestants have a chance to complete the collection, the Sapphire and Diamond ciclets will alternate between the Stella and Nova divisions each year.

Done. This will solve the Kanade/Mikoto problem for good.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Bastion » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:13 pm

Kholdy wrote:After hearing several ideas, we think that another proposal can work, if the majority likes it more.

Alternative Idea
  • Tiara winners can still participate in Regular Season, but are not eligible for postseason.
  • The two circlets are moved back to Regular Season performance, so Tiara winners can still win necklaces and circlets.
Please tell us if you like this idea more than the original one. We are fine with this, but we worry more people would be mad if their characters performed well in regular season but are not eligible for postseason. On the other hand, you can still win necklaces and circlets now as previous tiara winners.
On a 'going forward' basis, I would say that there should be a 'TOTY 2015' (ex) of all of the necklace/circlet/tiara winners that year, and the winner is an automatic participant in the next TOC and ineligible for any 'period ending' matches. That way there are no 'repeat winner' votes, and it would also let the tiara winner have to contest her strength with the others that year, ensuring that they are the strongest moe that year.
This would have stopped the group than wants Shana to get all of the necklaces.

If any girl is able to get through Preseason, they participate in Regular Season, but those in the TOC aren't afforded auto-nominations and have to go through the process like the rest. If Fate is able to complete the requirements, I would welcome her back into regular season.

(Though I used 'girl' in the argument, I would include the proposed Male Tournament winners in this as well, Male vs Female moe in the TOC)
Last edited by Bastion on Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Magnux7 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:14 pm

minhtam1638 wrote:I propose a counter option. I call it Option 3.

Option 3 is as follows:

A) Go with everything in option 2.
B) In addition, no contestant will be allowed to win the same jewel she has won before. So for example, neither Kanade, Mikoto, or any previous Aquamarine winner can be eligible to win the necklace again.
C) From this point forward, any character that completes the collection of all 7 jewels AND the tiara will be retired. A special Hall of Fame section will be created to honor each of those contestants' achievements. These characters will no longer be able to participate in future main seasons going forward, but will be able to enter the Tournament of Champions if they qualify to do so.
D) To ensure all contestants have a chance to complete the collection, the Sapphire and Diamond ciclets will alternate between the Stella and Nova divisions each year.

Done. This will solve the Kanade/Mikoto problem for good.
I like your way of thinking and your new ideas ^^
There's just one thing though, it MAY take several years before any character manages to complete the entire collection.
Which means, we'll have to stick around with Mikoto and Kanade for a while.
I personally don't mind it, but some are tired of Kanade and Mikoto
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by minhtam1638 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:52 pm

Magnux7 wrote:
minhtam1638 wrote:I propose a counter option. I call it Option 3.

Option 3 is as follows:

A) Go with everything in option 2.
B) In addition, no contestant will be allowed to win the same jewel she has won before. So for example, neither Kanade, Mikoto, or any previous Aquamarine winner can be eligible to win the necklace again.
C) From this point forward, any character that completes the collection of all 7 jewels AND the tiara will be retired. A special Hall of Fame section will be created to honor each of those contestants' achievements. These characters will no longer be able to participate in future main seasons going forward, but will be able to enter the Tournament of Champions if they qualify to do so.
D) To ensure all contestants have a chance to complete the collection, the Sapphire and Diamond ciclets will alternate between the Stella and Nova divisions each year.

Done. This will solve the Kanade/Mikoto problem for good.
I like your way of thinking and your new ideas ^^ :)
There's just one thing though, it MAY take several years before any character manages to complete the entire collection.
Which means, we'll have to stick around with Mikoto and Kanade for a while.
I personally don't mind it, but some are tired of Kanade and Mikoto
At minimum, this quest would take 5 years to complete under current rules. So yeah, there's that. However, in the short term, within three years, 3 characters can be retired under this model. And by doing so, they spare themselves from leaving ISML the traditional way - the way of losing, which both Kanade and Mikoto clearly don't want to do. Consider this:

Kanade is missing Ruby and Emerald. She wins Ruby in 2015 and Emerald in 2016. Boom. She's done.

Mikoto is missing a lot, specifically Amethyst, Emerald, Topaz, and Sapphire. She wins Amethyst in 2015, then narrowly loses to Kanade for Emerald. Wins Topaz in 2016 instead. If we assume the ciclets are switched, she should get Sapphire. Then Emerald in 2017 and she is done. We can also consider Mikoto beating Kanade for Emerald in 2016, but by then, 2017 should see Emerald to Kanade and Topaz to Mikoto. Double Whammy.

The Staff can also consider removing the one necklace per year rule to make this accomplishment easier for both of them. If so, Kanade can be gone in 2015 and Mikoto in 2016 if this is done correctly. However, this can discourage voters in the short run, so I don't mind if the one-per-year rule is retained.

And there you have it. Of course, I did mention that three can retire, but only spelled out what Kanade and Mikoto have to do. So can you figure out who the third one is and what she has to do to retire by 2016?
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by Homura » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:45 pm

minhtam1638 wrote:I propose a counter option. I call it Option 3.

Option 3 is as follows:

A) Go with everything in option 2.
B) In addition, no contestant will be allowed to win the same jewel she has won before. So for example, neither Kanade, Mikoto, or any previous Aquamarine winner can be eligible to win the necklace again.
C) From this point forward, any character that completes the collection of all 7 jewels AND the tiara will be retired. A special Hall of Fame section will be created to honor each of those contestants' achievements. These characters will no longer be able to participate in future main seasons going forward, but will be able to enter the Tournament of Champions if they qualify to do so.
D) To ensure all contestants have a chance to complete the collection, the Sapphire and Diamond ciclets will alternate between the Stella and Nova divisions each year.

Done. This will solve the Kanade/Mikoto problem for good.
@minhtam
1. This is a really hard mission. Even given your proposed condition, I guess > 95% of old contestants & future contestants will not be able to achieve such a full collection.
2. I don't like the idea that future retired contestants (except those veterans like Kanade & Mikoto) will all end with the same achievements: 7 different jewels and 1 tiara.
For instance, I like to see characters win more necklaces that fit her best (ex. Both Nagato & Ruri have won two Amethysts). Also, necklace color can reflect characters' popularity in one specific year (ex. Kanade won two Aquamarines in 2012 & 2013, suggesting that she is probably the most popular character in those two years).

Thus, I would like to give my modified option 3, which is option 4:
Any character that completes the collection of 7 jewels (no matter what their colors are) + the tiara OR 7 jewels only (no matter colors) will be retired, and make into the Hall of Frame.
Others are same as option 3, and Sapphire & Diamond alternation also sounds good to me.

I know this may sound very controversial right now, but this is really not that bad. Let me give a couple of reasons.
1. The highlighted requirements are easier to achieve, compared to option 3 (which is important).
2. For kanade fans, there is no difference between option 1 & 4.
3. It will take years for one character to grasp 7 jewels. If she can't win a tiara before she succeeds in doing that, I don't think she has a real chance anymore, be realistic (sorry Shana).
4. Retirement is part of the rules of nature. It is necessary (avoid being cleared away) and will give new contestants more chance.
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Re: ISML 2015 - Tournament of Champions

Post by maglor » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:54 pm

Here is how I view the Option 1.

By introducing ToC, we have made the current prelim+Regular Season + Postseason to Tiara, a Qualifying round into the ultimate crown that can be won in Tournament of the Champions. It can be thought that past Tiara winners are Auto qualified to the Ultimate stage of the year, not needing to face elimination during prelim, regular season, nor postseason Tiara matches. Furthermore, Tiara winners can't maintain their lofty auto status forever. If they lose in the 1st round of ToC, the four that does will be thrown into Survival match. The contestant that finish last in the Survival match will be asked to retire and they will be receiving a nice big Hall of Fame Plaque for all their service to ISML. Perhaps they can un-retire if extraordinary situation arises. So, it isn't like they are banned from ISML. The "active" Tiara winners are given free ride into the grand finale stage of the year.
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