2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

User avatar
maglor
~Fukou da~
~Fukou da~
Posts: 8547
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:57 pm
Badges:
ImageImage
Worships: Abriel Nei Debrusc Borl Paryun Lafiel
Melon Pan: 75
2018 Female Favorite: Chtholly Nota Seniorious
2018 Male Favorite: Yang Wenli
2017 Female Favorite: Tomori Nao
2017 Male Favorite: Yang Wenli
Wish: More people being open to alternatives and compromises.

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by maglor » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:24 pm

Midnight-Jasper wrote:
Kordosa wrote: voter diversity is key.
Mr Moeglor's stance for the past 10000 years.
I wonder how many voters come for the male tourney but don't vote in regular season.
If you campaign for ISML, the reason that voters will be put off / existing voters leave is because "All these girls suck / where are my favourite girls?". In short, ISML is shit ><
So, we must campaign in nominations and preliminaries! Then even if it's only one character that they like, a new person might still show up to vote for them.
In addition to diversity, I agree about importance of nominations and prelim.
Image
User avatar
Progeusz
Befriender
Befriender
Posts: 208
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:08 pm
Worships: Watashi
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: [email protected] 2011 characters

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by Progeusz » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:42 pm

Kordosa wrote:To me, the above sounds like a horror story compared to the "faction voting" that has gone on in ISML. Am I mistaken in saying that only the Rozen Maiden faction had enough focus and numbers to even partially mimic the results as stated above? That was back in 2009 and ISML had much lower voting numbers. It's true that our peak regular voting numbers were in the mid-7k to mid-8k (if I remember correctly). But even now, with around 4500 regular voters, it's still quite a bit more, so unless any of these so called "factions" like HanaKana or DAL comprise a larger percentage of the total voting base, their efforts will not be as overwhelmingly felt.
Let me tell you more in that case. In 2011, the #1 favorite was Homura but as I said earlier, she was cheated out of the tournament right after new rigorous restrictions were implemented. #2 was Madoka and things were going well for her. Then there came semi-final vs Mami from the same series. Let's take a short break here, we need some infodump.
In AST you vote by posting in a thread. Therefore your votes are visible to everybody unlike any other saimoe tournament. That's probably the main reason why tactics are of so huge importance there - you can clearly see how the match develops and react accordingly. Or you would like to as things aren't clear at all. As one of restrictions, you need to obtain special code which validates your vote. If it's wrong or isn't there, the vote isn't counted. Admins have a list of codes generated for each day so they know which votes are valid. However normal participants don't know which codes are valid, enabling "fake voting" with made up code - to normal eye they're the same as valid votes. It's main use is fake voting character you want to lose. If fan of this character sees that his character has big advantage, he might want to support other character or simply not bother with code obtaining process, thinking his character is safe. And then, bam, hundreds of fake votes get deleted and his character loses. Evil and genius, right? But well, to be honest, it makes the whole thing incredibly exciting (or made, until one faction gained majority). Random round 1 match can give you more excitement than final round elsewhere. I'm getting sidetracked here, back to voting. Because of what I described above, people reached natural conclusion that it's the best to vote late so that opponents won't be able to react. This gave birth to famous "final rush". It means that voters start posting their votes just minutes before the deadline. Thread reaches insane speeds there because not only voters post there but also random people with comments of support or very popular ASCII art. Hundreds of posts at once, making the rush even more frantic. The excitement reaches its climax at this point. Usually whoever has bigger final rush, wins. There are times when steady gain of votes over previous 23 hours makes the gap too big, letting the character survive opponent's final rush.
Accordingly, early rush also exists, it's used to show power early on and discourage opponents from voting, making it seem as if match is decided since the start. Losing early rush might be a big blow to morale.
Okay, back to Mami vs Madoka. Match was very close all the time, it was obvious all will come down to the final rushes. Madoka fans were preparing bigger one but then Mami fans surprised everybody by unleashing early final rush, several minutes before when it normally happens. That wasn't the end. Afterwards they proceeded to spam the hell out of voting thread. Whole thing was loading slow, thread reached limit (it's 1000 posts there, new thread gets created when it happenes), it was full of Mami posts and ASCII art and their crazy plan succeeded as many Madoka fans weren't able to vote in time. In the end Madoka lost the final rush and whole match. Mami beat Kyouko in the final without much trouble 512-435.

You want more? Sure. 2011 group F. Mami is the favorite but on the other side of bracket stands ever dangerous KugiRie (probably the strongest faction until Madoka and Saki came) Shana plus two strong newcomers in IS' Cecilia and Iroha's Nako. What happens there? First round, A-Channel's Yuuko, #4 in her prelim group beats prelim group winner Shana 340-316. First round, HnA's Shirayuki (distant #3 in average prelim group) beats prelim group winner Nako 332-258 She shares most of her votes with Mami who had a match on the same day. Round 2, Yuuko, #2 of A-Channel beats Nichijou's ace Nano, who was just behind A-Channel's ace Tooru in prelims 230-193. Round 2, Shirayuki beats Cecilia who was #2 in Shana group in prelims 318-289. Round 3, Shirayuki beats Yuuko 412-372. Whoa, so many votes, both might be actually strong! Round 4, group final, Mami vs Shirayuki. 427-182. 182.
Clap clap clap, splendid performance by Madoka faction. Three opposing aces killed, assassins cleaned up.

Okay, that should be enough for now, sorry :­P

ISML, beware. Moe is serious fucking business.
User avatar
smartboyhw
[Future Overlord]
[Future Overlord]
Posts: 3260
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 2:18 pm
Badges:
ImageImage
Worships: Isshiki Iroha
Melon Pan: 0
2018 Female Favorite: Isshiki Iroha
2018 Male Favorite: Killua Zoldyck
2017 Female Favorite: Isshiki Iroha
2017 Male Favorite: Killua Zoldyck
Wish: Shichimiya Satone, Aoyama Nanami and Nakano Azusa to win an ISML prize, Inaba Himeko to win BGC and live in Sakura-sō
Location: Hong Kong, China

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by smartboyhw » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:44 pm

maglor wrote:
Midnight-Jasper wrote:
Kordosa wrote: voter diversity is key.
Mr Moeglor's stance for the past 10000 years.
I wonder how many voters come for the male tourney but don't vote in regular season.
If you campaign for ISML, the reason that voters will be put off / existing voters leave is because "All these girls suck / where are my favourite girls?". In short, ISML is shit ><
So, we must campaign in nominations and preliminaries! Then even if it's only one character that they like, a new person might still show up to vote for them.
In addition to diversity, I agree about importance of nominations and prelim.
I agree too. Many #Ragequit after Prelim, especially if their characters were kicked out early.

BTW can maglor or Kholdy open a 2014 Emerald General Discussion Thread a.s.a.p...
ImageImage

Let me teach you something: We humans... Even for 10 minutes... We cannot even wait that long! - Nakamura Yuri, Angel Beats!
User avatar
Vella
Gym leader
Gym leader
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:33 pm
Worships: Haibara Ai
Melon Pan: 50
Location: North American Aerospace Defense Command

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by Vella » Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:20 pm

At the very end of Ruby Period, I still want to strongly recommend a free-for-all bonus round, in which you can choose at most 72 out of 72 contestants!
User avatar
Zefyris
Gnome
Gnome
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:54 pm
Worships: Midarezaki Kyouka
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: ISML 2015 Nova Division to have at least one character I favor.
Location: Dome of Crystal Seers, Ultanash Shelwe

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by Zefyris » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:26 am

don't you mean one out of 72? If you allow 72 out of 72, it's basically the same as "pick those you don't like". rather than "pick those you like".
User avatar
Vella
Gym leader
Gym leader
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:33 pm
Worships: Haibara Ai
Melon Pan: 50
Location: North American Aerospace Defense Command

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by Vella » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:38 am

Saimoe isn't "pick one as your wife". One can have only one wife, but you can like more characters.
User avatar
Kordosa
Soul gem
Soul gem
Posts: 4046
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:35 am
Worships: Moriya Suwako's hat
Melon Pan: 50
2018 Female Favorite: Yamada Elf
2018 Male Favorite: Willem Kmetsch
2017 Female Favorite: Darkness
2017 Male Favorite: Roy Mustang
Wish: A third season of Spice and Wolf.
Location: Mississippi, USA
Contact:

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by Kordosa » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:56 am

Progeusz wrote:
Kordosa wrote:To me, the above sounds like a horror story compared to the "faction voting" that has gone on in ISML. Am I mistaken in saying that only the Rozen Maiden faction had enough focus and numbers to even partially mimic the results as stated above? That was back in 2009 and ISML had much lower voting numbers. It's true that our peak regular voting numbers were in the mid-7k to mid-8k (if I remember correctly). But even now, with around 4500 regular voters, it's still quite a bit more, so unless any of these so called "factions" like HanaKana or DAL comprise a larger percentage of the total voting base, their efforts will not be as overwhelmingly felt.
Let me tell you more in that case. In 2011, the #1 favorite was Homura but as I said earlier, she was cheated out of the tournament right after new rigorous restrictions were implemented. #2 was Madoka and things were going well for her. Then there came semi-final vs Mami from the same series. Let's take a short break here, we need some infodump.
In AST you vote by posting in a thread. Therefore your votes are visible to everybody unlike any other saimoe tournament. That's probably the main reason why tactics are of so huge importance there - you can clearly see how the match develops and react accordingly. Or you would like to as things aren't clear at all. As one of restrictions, you need to obtain special code which validates your vote. If it's wrong or isn't there, the vote isn't counted. Admins have a list of codes generated for each day so they know which votes are valid. However normal participants don't know which codes are valid, enabling "fake voting" with made up code - to normal eye they're the same as valid votes. It's main use is fake voting character you want to lose. If fan of this character sees that his character has big advantage, he might want to support other character or simply not bother with code obtaining process, thinking his character is safe. And then, bam, hundreds of fake votes get deleted and his character loses. Evil and genius, right? But well, to be honest, it makes the whole thing incredibly exciting (or made, until one faction gained majority). Random round 1 match can give you more excitement than final round elsewhere. I'm getting sidetracked here, back to voting. Because of what I described above, people reached natural conclusion that it's the best to vote late so that opponents won't be able to react. This gave birth to famous "final rush". It means that voters start posting their votes just minutes before the deadline. Thread reaches insane speeds there because not only voters post there but also random people with comments of support or very popular ASCII art. Hundreds of posts at once, making the rush even more frantic. The excitement reaches its climax at this point. Usually whoever has bigger final rush, wins. There are times when steady gain of votes over previous 23 hours makes the gap too big, letting the character survive opponent's final rush.
Accordingly, early rush also exists, it's used to show power early on and discourage opponents from voting, making it seem as if match is decided since the start. Losing early rush might be a big blow to morale.
Okay, back to Mami vs Madoka. Match was very close all the time, it was obvious all will come down to the final rushes. Madoka fans were preparing bigger one but then Mami fans surprised everybody by unleashing early final rush, several minutes before when it normally happens. That wasn't the end. Afterwards they proceeded to spam the hell out of voting thread. Whole thing was loading slow, thread reached limit (it's 1000 posts there, new thread gets created when it happenes), it was full of Mami posts and ASCII art and their crazy plan succeeded as many Madoka fans weren't able to vote in time. In the end Madoka lost the final rush and whole match. Mami beat Kyouko in the final without much trouble 512-435.

You want more? Sure. 2011 group F. Mami is the favorite but on the other side of bracket stands ever dangerous KugiRie (probably the strongest faction until Madoka and Saki came) Shana plus two strong newcomers in IS' Cecilia and Iroha's Nako. What happens there? First round, A-Channel's Yuuko, #4 in her prelim group beats prelim group winner Shana 340-316. First round, HnA's Shirayuki (distant #3 in average prelim group) beats prelim group winner Nako 332-258 She shares most of her votes with Mami who had a match on the same day. Round 2, Yuuko, #2 of A-Channel beats Nichijou's ace Nano, who was just behind A-Channel's ace Tooru in prelims 230-193. Round 2, Shirayuki beats Cecilia who was #2 in Shana group in prelims 318-289. Round 3, Shirayuki beats Yuuko 412-372. Whoa, so many votes, both might be actually strong! Round 4, group final, Mami vs Shirayuki. 427-182. 182.
Clap clap clap, splendid performance by Madoka faction. Three opposing aces killed, assassins cleaned up.

Okay, that should be enough for now, sorry :­P

ISML, beware. Moe is serious fucking business.
Ugh, I encountered that type of voting system when I stumbled upon a Touhou tournament in 2011. I seriously thought the voting procedure was clunky, unreliable, prone to errors on the voters' part, and cheating. It was just so unsophisticated and complex compared to ISML.

The above vote rush hours indeed sounds exciting. But the "denial of service" spamming in the thread by the Mami fans is just terrible. Makes me glad that ISML was my first (and only) encounter with saimoe tournaments in general.
QuotesShow
Cirno wrote:*sinister laugh* Winning by only 47 votes is all part of my master plan. Now everyone will think I'm weak when, in fact, I'm the strongest. And then, when they least expect it, I'll strike back and take over the entire ISML. It's foolproof. Hahahaha, I'm such a genius!
Crisu wrote:And, of course, never merge an anti-cookie with a normal cookie. Serious consequence will occur.
shiraoky wrote:I'm always squeeing lol.
Metaler wrote:Seriously, if you're gonna do something badly, then don't bother doing it. It's like when you take a dump: you don't show it to other people specifically because it's shit!
Kordosa wrote:Protip: If a male high school student character is voiced by a female seiyuu, there is a 100% probability that that character will be forced to crossdress at some point.
User avatar
Midnight-Jasper
Intelligent device
Intelligent device
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:47 pm
Badges:
Image
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: viva all, baby~
Location: Aloha Oe

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by Midnight-Jasper » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:59 am

Zefyris wrote:don't you mean one out of 72? If you allow 72 out of 72, it's basically the same as "pick those you don't like". rather than "pick those you like".
If everyone picked every character that they would vote for, then there's no vote splitting problems. The results would give a rough idea of character strength ... maybe :s
Image
Jiharo
Void mage
Void mage
Posts: 1481
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:23 pm
Melon Pan: 50

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by Jiharo » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:42 pm

Progeusz wrote:
Kordosa wrote:To me, the above sounds like a horror story compared to the "faction voting" that has gone on in ISML. Am I mistaken in saying that only the Rozen Maiden faction had enough focus and numbers to even partially mimic the results as stated above? That was back in 2009 and ISML had much lower voting numbers. It's true that our peak regular voting numbers were in the mid-7k to mid-8k (if I remember correctly). But even now, with around 4500 regular voters, it's still quite a bit more, so unless any of these so called "factions" like HanaKana or DAL comprise a larger percentage of the total voting base, their efforts will not be as overwhelmingly felt.
Let me tell you more in that case. In 2011, the #1 favorite was Homura but as I said earlier, she was cheated out of the tournament right after new rigorous restrictions were implemented. #2 was Madoka and things were going well for her. Then there came semi-final vs Mami from the same series. Let's take a short break here, we need some infodump.
In AST you vote by posting in a thread. Therefore your votes are visible to everybody unlike any other saimoe tournament. That's probably the main reason why tactics are of so huge importance there - you can clearly see how the match develops and react accordingly. Or you would like to as things aren't clear at all. As one of restrictions, you need to obtain special code which validates your vote. If it's wrong or isn't there, the vote isn't counted. Admins have a list of codes generated for each day so they know which votes are valid. However normal participants don't know which codes are valid, enabling "fake voting" with made up code - to normal eye they're the same as valid votes. It's main use is fake voting character you want to lose. If fan of this character sees that his character has big advantage, he might want to support other character or simply not bother with code obtaining process, thinking his character is safe. And then, bam, hundreds of fake votes get deleted and his character loses. Evil and genius, right? But well, to be honest, it makes the whole thing incredibly exciting (or made, until one faction gained majority). Random round 1 match can give you more excitement than final round elsewhere. I'm getting sidetracked here, back to voting. Because of what I described above, people reached natural conclusion that it's the best to vote late so that opponents won't be able to react. This gave birth to famous "final rush". It means that voters start posting their votes just minutes before the deadline. Thread reaches insane speeds there because not only voters post there but also random people with comments of support or very popular ASCII art. Hundreds of posts at once, making the rush even more frantic. The excitement reaches its climax at this point. Usually whoever has bigger final rush, wins. There are times when steady gain of votes over previous 23 hours makes the gap too big, letting the character survive opponent's final rush.
Accordingly, early rush also exists, it's used to show power early on and discourage opponents from voting, making it seem as if match is decided since the start. Losing early rush might be a big blow to morale.
Okay, back to Mami vs Madoka. Match was very close all the time, it was obvious all will come down to the final rushes. Madoka fans were preparing bigger one but then Mami fans surprised everybody by unleashing early final rush, several minutes before when it normally happens. That wasn't the end. Afterwards they proceeded to spam the hell out of voting thread. Whole thing was loading slow, thread reached limit (it's 1000 posts there, new thread gets created when it happenes), it was full of Mami posts and ASCII art and their crazy plan succeeded as many Madoka fans weren't able to vote in time. In the end Madoka lost the final rush and whole match. Mami beat Kyouko in the final without much trouble 512-435.

You want more? Sure. 2011 group F. Mami is the favorite but on the other side of bracket stands ever dangerous KugiRie (probably the strongest faction until Madoka and Saki came) Shana plus two strong newcomers in IS' Cecilia and Iroha's Nako. What happens there? First round, A-Channel's Yuuko, #4 in her prelim group beats prelim group winner Shana 340-316. First round, HnA's Shirayuki (distant #3 in average prelim group) beats prelim group winner Nako 332-258 She shares most of her votes with Mami who had a match on the same day. Round 2, Yuuko, #2 of A-Channel beats Nichijou's ace Nano, who was just behind A-Channel's ace Tooru in prelims 230-193. Round 2, Shirayuki beats Cecilia who was #2 in Shana group in prelims 318-289. Round 3, Shirayuki beats Yuuko 412-372. Whoa, so many votes, both might be actually strong! Round 4, group final, Mami vs Shirayuki. 427-182. 182.
Clap clap clap, splendid performance by Madoka faction. Three opposing aces killed, assassins cleaned up.

Okay, that should be enough for now, sorry :­P

ISML, beware. Moe is serious fucking business.

Just one thing: I kinda prefer AST voting style, yet dislike it to an extent.
User avatar
Momento10
Electromaster
Electromaster
Posts: 6045
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:18 am
Badges:
ImageImageImageImage
Worships: Setsumi Sakura
Melon Pan: 88
2018 Female Favorite: Nishimiya Shōko
2018 Male Favorite: Sagara Sōsuke
2017 Female Favorite: Megumin
2017 Male Favorite: Zen Wistalia
Wish: ISML - A new face for the champion.
KBM - to revive
AST - to encourage international participation
IRL - My definition of peace and tranquility.

Re: 2014 Ruby General Discussion Thread

Post by Momento10 » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:23 pm

PicsShow
Image
Image
Image
Image
Locked