RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Bastion » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:59 pm

Kordosa wrote:If that's the case, then why wasn't Hayate no Gotoku's Athena Tennos eligible until the fourth season? She had a significant role in the manga. Check. She made an appearance in the anime (two different flashbacks in the second season, and with dialogue in the second flashback). Check. And yet, she was found to be ineligible until Cuties. That doesn't seem fair to me. Flashback or not, she made an appearance.
Athena made an appearance, yes, but despite all of the manga followers knowing her significance to the plot, she had none in the anime until the 4th season. I don't even think she showed her face until she became a plotline character.
SpoilerShow
Even in the manga, what the anime had converted didn't have her playing anything significant. Truthfully, even in Cuties she's not significant, but that would only be an issue if she'd gotten to the preseason.
Athena's significance hasn't been animated and there's nothing for her on an ongoing basis, so you can't even really make the argument that she changed what's going on as things progress.
In contrastShow
Chiharu didn't even appear in the manga until the 'second season', but she could have been eligible for ISML because of her appearance and significance in the (filler) season 1. I don't know if she was even named in the first season, but she was identified.
She also appeared in the 'character popularity poll' in which the characters actually told the viewers they had to use other media to find out who she was.
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Athalon » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:50 pm

Hot Kurumi almost got ze necklace, tho I did expect Dat Hot KYH will win. GTZ to Dat Hot KYH.
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Sphire » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:35 am

maglor wrote:
Sphire wrote:My personal top poster pic is still probably Suigintou's Amethyst one, but this comes close to that.
That is a legendary poster.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3151" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oh how I love that poster. Every Amethyst I always think how whoever wins the period has to compare to Suigintou's poster, a lost cause. I should've been in and around these forums during that poll time, but I don't remember if I voted. From looking at the poll though, I don't particularly like any of the other choices given. The link from that thread which showcases all posters gave me a quick reminder of what we've had before and man, Hime's Ruby poster is quite brilliant and will likely take 2nd spot for me. Heck, give me a few more days, and it might be joint top.

http://internationalsaimoe.com/contestants/gallery.php

That link also reminds me how good most posters from last year were. Emerald, Topaz and Diamond being really good. We should have another one of those polls at the end of this year too. Is there a link to jewel posters too?
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by BugH » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:36 am

Kordosa wrote:
BugH wrote:
The character must either appear in the production on a regular basis or have individual significance to the series’ storyline.
ahh, i forgot that regulation
sorry2
but is the "individual significance" only coming from the anime? can't from other media like LN or manga itself ?
SpoilerShow
In the LN itself, Misaki only appear in New Testament, not in first-22-volumes of Index' LN
The development of her character strongly appear in Manga
if i can interpret that article, its mean was the chara must give significant contribution to the main event in the storyline
examples of misaki's contributionShow
Past of Sister's Arc
Daihaseisai Arc
so i think its okay for her to appear in this ISML, anyway she's level 5
:3
if the answer that IT MUST COME FROM ANIMEShow
can i ask something ?
maybe to maggy about this Misaki
why Misaki appear as representative of Index not Railgun ?
She was only appear in Railgun S, not from Index (manga and anime)
This is a good question. If Shokuhou met the eligibility requirements for number 5 via having a significant role in the manga, that would explain a lot. Basically, that would mean that the anime requirement was for inclusion in the Preliminaries and therefore the Regular Season, and only applicable after the other requirements were met.

BUT....

If that's the case, then why wasn't Hayate no Gotoku's Athena Tennos eligible until the fourth season? She had a significant role in the manga. Check. She made an appearance in the anime (two different flashbacks in the second season, and with dialogue in the second flashback). Check. And yet, she was found to be ineligible until Cuties. That doesn't seem fair to me. Flashback or not, she made an appearance.
why just 3 minutes ?Show
i think the reason why JCSTAFF appearing her is just to fulfill the expectations and wishes from the fans that want to see Misaki
actually, that was my dream too
and i very impressed with her 3-minute-appearance in Railgun S
I'm not the one who responsible about this case but i think, yes there was an unfairness here
but i can do nothing
blame maggy for this
Kordosa wrote: As for why Shokuhou is listed under Index instead of Railgun, I think it's because the Staff didn't want to waste time figuring out which character belonged to which series. Their most likely thought process was "Index and Railgun are in the same universe, so we'll just label all of the characters as coming from Index to save us some headaches". I personally still think they should be split. Railgun is a separate side story to Index after all. Characters that only appear in one series should only be labeled as such, whereas characters that appear in both should be labeled in the series they appeared in first, broadcast-wise. So Mikoto would have been labeled coming from Index because Index aired before Railgun.
yes RailDex was coming from same universe
the difference is only from the faction
nah, i don't want to explain

it just to make people easier to find the chara in their respective series (anime)
in Misaki matter, the people will find her in Index (as the series that she's representated) and what they'll get later is the information from LN
if i didn't know about her (and want to see her because of curiousity) , it'll be somewhat disappointed

but anyway, it's okay to unite her with other Index characters (for me)
i had flu for now, so just talking and seeing the chaos of Result and Misaki's matter already gave me some headache
hahahah....

i know the problems of our staff here
and i want to say thanks for all your great job
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by ssdcgaddq » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:14 am

Why still bother about Misaki? Let's talk about something else. Look at Iwasawa, she's even in Stella (which means she's well-supported).
I understand that Angel Beats! is very popular, but her screen time is just 1 episode...
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by LOveLive! » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:34 am

ssdcgaddq wrote:Why still bother about Misaki? Let's talk about something else. Look at Iwasawa, she's even in Stella (which means she's well-supported).
I understand that Angel Beats! is very popular, but her screen time is just 1 episode...
Misaki's screen time is about 1/8 of 1 episode. :jii:
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by BugH » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:41 am

LOveLive! wrote:
ssdcgaddq wrote:Why still bother about Misaki? Let's talk about something else. Look at Iwasawa, she's even in Stella (which means she's well-supported).
I understand that Angel Beats! is very popular, but her screen time is just 1 episode...
Misaki's screen time is about 1/8 of 1 episode. :jii:
plus few seconds in last episode
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Fuijiwara » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:57 am

Let me summarise.

We are questioning whether Misaki really should have entered ISML due to her screen time , which is in total about 3 minutes and 30 seconds. This violates whether is she relevant at all to the anime, since the time is too dubious.
However, let me say something. If you wanted to do this, why not at the point where she won Regne, instead of now, where she won something.
Moreover, if only now when Misaki won something did you then object to her belonging, Is that not resentment of her win?
I do not deny myself. I rather have someone else win it other than her, but right now is not an opportune time for this.
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by BugH » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:23 am

Fuijiwara wrote:Let me summarise.

We are questioning whether Misaki really should have entered ISML due to her screen time , which is in total about 3 minutes and 30 seconds. This violates whether is she relevant at all to the anime, since the time is too dubious.
However, let me say something. If you wanted to do this, why not at the point where she won Regne, instead of now, where she won something.
Moreover, if only now when Misaki won something did you then object to her belonging, Is that not resentment of her win?
I do not deny myself. I rather have someone else win it other than her, but right now is not an opportune time for this.
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by kanohistorm » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:25 am

not to add oil to the the fire,

but I do recall objections of her since back when prelim started.

as far as eligibility issues go, I have no comment
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by maglor » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:37 am

Shokuho Misaki had proper name in the end credit, along with designated seiyuu, was called by her name in the anime, and had several lines. By the end of the season 2, it was pointed out that she did significantly influence the situations. Without her, it is possible that Mikoto might have been facing various legal charges, though I do doubt whether legal system and judicial branch of the government do exist in the series. Relatively speaking her role may be minor, but we had people nominated for much less time or dialog lines from ovas and movies. Is 3 minutes enough? I don't know, but since 5861 people voted that she is a better character compared to Suzuhara Izumiko and Kūne from Haiyore! Nyaruko-san w, and 3042 people said she is even better than Tokisaki Kurumi and Yukinoshita Yukino , we decided to give her benefit of doubt.

Image

Image

Image

If anyone wants to find a point of failure, I'm afraid we have to look at these two places first.

Also, why am I keep hearing the music from following scene when someone mentions 2014 Ruby necklace?




The name of the music is "Final Bell"
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Kordosa » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:39 am

Me bringing up Athena was simply to compare her to Shokuhou and how each character's eligibility status was handled. Athena appeared in one of Hayate's flashbacks and even had spoken dialogue. She plays a role in the plot later on in the manga. Is that really any different from Shokuhou showing up in Railgun S (with her only significant scene being to taunt Mikoto and creep her out) who also has a role in the plot later on?

Kholdy indicated that the eligibility guidelines were made so that background characters like "unnamed swimming club member" would be excluded. Thus, by those standards, both Shokuhou and Athena should have been eligible if their roles within their source material was sufficient; neither are incidental characters, nor are they living props.

Of course, the most likely explanation is the difference in time periods. Athena's appearance was in the second season of Hayate no Gotoku which aired during 2009, so she would have first become eligible for the 2010 season. That was four years ago, and since ISML has undoubtedly had a change in some of the Staff members since then, it was probably a discretionary decision made by the Staff at that time. The Staff's overall stance may have been relaxed since then. And if that is the case, then there's nothing for me to complain about, again because it was made by the Staff at that particular time, and at their own discretion.

My original post that started this discussion was not originally intended to rehash this debate. It was simply me raging and should have simply been ignored. That it ended up doing so anyway is just how this discussion evolved.

As an aside, I finished watching Railgun S in mid-November of 2013. And so while I can't remember if I explicitly raised objections during Nominations, I'm pretty sure I did during the Preliminaries, just not as vocally.

As for Iwasawa (and SAO's Silica), one could reason that they do contribute to the plot.
Angel Beats!, episode 3Show
Iwasawa's death introduced the audience to the plot point concerning disappearing from the afterlife once finding fulfillment.
SAO, episodes 3 and 4Show
Silica's involvement with Kirito was intended to further his character development. In the previous episode, he feels guilty over Sachi's death. Him interacting with Silica was meant to bring him out of his depression over that incident.
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Cirno wrote:*sinister laugh* Winning by only 47 votes is all part of my master plan. Now everyone will think I'm weak when, in fact, I'm the strongest. And then, when they least expect it, I'll strike back and take over the entire ISML. It's foolproof. Hahahaha, I'm such a genius!
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by smartboyhw » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:41 am

Kordosa wrote:Me bringing up Athena was simply to compare her to Shokuhou and how each character's eligibility status was handled. Athena appeared in one of Hayate's flashbacks and even had spoken dialogue. She plays a role in the plot later on in the manga. Is that really any different from Shokuhou showing up in Railgun S (with her only significant scene being to taunt Mikoto and creep her out) who also has a role in the plot later on?

Kholdy indicated that the eligibility guidelines were made so that background characters like "unnamed swimming club member" would be excluded. Thus, by those standards, both Shokuhou and Athena should have been eligible if their roles within their source material was sufficient; neither are incidental characters, nor are they living props.

Of course, the most likely explanation is the difference in time periods. Athena's appearance was in the second season of Hayate no Gotoku which aired during 2009, so she would have first become eligible for the 2010 season. That was four years ago, and since ISML has undoubtedly had a change in some of the Staff members since then, it was probably a discretionary decision made by the Staff at that time. The Staff's overall stance may have been relaxed since then. And if that is the case, then there's nothing for me to complain about, again because it was made by the Staff at that particular time, and at their own discretion.

My original post that started this discussion was not originally intended to rehash this debate. It was simply me raging and should have simply been ignored. That it ended up doing so anyway is just how this discussion evolved.

As an aside, I finished watching Railgun S in mid-November of 2013. And so while I can't remember if I explicitly raised objections during Nominations, I'm pretty sure I did during the Preliminaries, just not as vocally.

As for Iwasawa (and SAO's Silica), one could reason that they do contribute to the plot.
Angel Beats!, episode 3Show
Iwasawa's death introduced the audience to the plot point concerning disappearing from the afterlife once finding fulfillment.
SAO, episodes 3 and 4Show
Silica's involvement with Kirito was intended to further his character development. In the previous episode, he feels guilty over Sachi's death. Him interacting with Silica was meant to bring him out of his depression over that incident.
I thought Athena was just simply unable to qualify in the nomination period?!
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Fuijiwara » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:44 am

smartboyhw wrote:
Kordosa wrote:Me bringing up Athena was simply to compare her to Shokuhou and how each character's eligibility status was handled. Athena appeared in one of Hayate's flashbacks and even had spoken dialogue. She plays a role in the plot later on in the manga. Is that really any different from Shokuhou showing up in Railgun S (with her only significant scene being to taunt Mikoto and creep her out) who also has a role in the plot later on?

Kholdy indicated that the eligibility guidelines were made so that background characters like "unnamed swimming club member" would be excluded. Thus, by those standards, both Shokuhou and Athena should have been eligible if their roles within their source material was sufficient; neither are incidental characters, nor are they living props.

Of course, the most likely explanation is the difference in time periods. Athena's appearance was in the second season of Hayate no Gotoku which aired during 2009, so she would have first become eligible for the 2010 season. That was four years ago, and since ISML has undoubtedly had a change in some of the Staff members since then, it was probably a discretionary decision made by the Staff at that time. The Staff's overall stance may have been relaxed since then. And if that is the case, then there's nothing for me to complain about, again because it was made by the Staff at that particular time, and at their own discretion.

My original post that started this discussion was not originally intended to rehash this debate. It was simply me raging and should have simply been ignored. That it ended up doing so anyway is just how this discussion evolved.

As an aside, I finished watching Railgun S in mid-November of 2013. And so while I can't remember if I explicitly raised objections during Nominations, I'm pretty sure I did during the Preliminaries, just not as vocally.

As for Iwasawa (and SAO's Silica), one could reason that they do contribute to the plot.
Angel Beats!, episode 3Show
Iwasawa's death introduced the audience to the plot point concerning disappearing from the afterlife once finding fulfillment.
SAO, episodes 3 and 4Show
Silica's involvement with Kirito was intended to further his character development. In the previous episode, he feels guilty over Sachi's death. Him interacting with Silica was meant to bring him out of his depression over that incident.
I thought Athena was just simply unable to qualify in the nomination period?!
No... that was due to same situation we faced now.
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by BugH » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:52 am

maglor wrote:Shokuho Misaki had proper name in the end credit, along with designated seiyuu, was called by her name in the anime, and had several lines. By the end of the season 2, it was pointed out that she did significantly influence the situations.
It has answered my question in previous post
maglor wrote:Is 3 minutes enough? I don't know, but since 5861 people voted that she is a better character compared to Suzuhara Izumiko and Kūne from Haiyore! Nyaruko-san w, and 3042 people said she is even better than Tokisaki Kurumi and Yukinoshita Yukino , we decided to give her benefit of doubt.
Last edited by BugH on Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Kordosa » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:58 am

maglor wrote:but we had people nominated for much less time or dialog lines from ovas and movies.
Whether or not less qualified characters were nominated should not be relevant here. We have people not following the guidelines and explicitly nominating characters on the "Do not nominate" list at the top of the nomination ballots every year after all. Nominations are supposed to be totally open. If people want to waste their nominations on someone clearly not eligible or on someone already guaranteed a spot due to them not reading the instructions, that's their business. The ISML Staff's job is to filter the results of the nomination process to check each character against the eligibility guidelines. As I have now acknowledged above, it is the Staff's discretion as to what qualifies and what does not. And that's absolutely fine as long as that discretion is used consistently.

In other words, I will not be making an issue out of this anymore.*
smartboyhw wrote:I thought Athena was just simply unable to qualify in the nomination period?!
Once again, I'm guessing it was due to the discretion of ISML's Staff at the time on whether or not Athena met the eligibility guidelines as set forth in the ISML Constitution.

* Though that doesn't mean I will suddenly now like Shokuhou as a character.
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Cirno wrote:*sinister laugh* Winning by only 47 votes is all part of my master plan. Now everyone will think I'm weak when, in fact, I'm the strongest. And then, when they least expect it, I'll strike back and take over the entire ISML. It's foolproof. Hahahaha, I'm such a genius!
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by maglor » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:03 am

I checked the Hayate 2nd season episode 10 again. A girl, whose name was NOT revealed in the end credit, though Hayate did call her A-tan, appeared for total of 35 seconds. Compared to her, Misaki appeared for 210+ seconds. Misaki had her name in end credit as well. Furthermore, A-tan was in flashback scene. Misaki is at present. Misaki did something that impacted how season 2 will end, though out of viewers' sight. A-tan's flashback never came back and never affected anything during season 2, nor season 3. There is no way A-tan could have been ruled eligible . Comparing A-tan with Misaki would be like comparing a bowl of rice you had for last meal with a large Family Dinner.
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Kordosa » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:10 am

maglor wrote:I checked the Hayate 2nd season episode 10 again. A girl, whose name was NOT revealed in the end credit, though Hayate did call her A-tan, appeared for total of 35 seconds. Compared to her, Misaki appeared for 210+ seconds. Misaki had her name in end credit as well. Furthermore, A-tan was in flashback scene. Misaki is at present. Misaki did something that impacted how season 2 will end, though out of viewers' sight. A-tan's flashback never came back and never affected anything during season 2, nor season 3. There is no way A-tan could have been ruled eligible . Comparing A-tan with Misaki would be like comparing a bowl of rice you had for last meal with Amount of rice in 10 cup Rice Cooker a mother prepares for a large Family Dinner.
So can you verify that guideline 5 of Article III, section 2 of the ISML Constitution is referring to a character having an appearance or role in the anime production alone, rather than considering whether or not they have a role in the source material (light novels or manga) since the source materials may feature the characters in content not yet animated? Clarification on that point would clear a lot of this up.
5. The character must either appear in the production on a regular basis or have individual significance to the series’ storyline.
Edit: The above point is being asked in relation to a character's eligibility for the Preliminaries and hence the Regular Season. I recognize that standalone exhibition matches (meaning this would exclude seasonal tournaments since those help determine who will show up the following year) can feature characters who have not appeared in an anime production.
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Cirno wrote:*sinister laugh* Winning by only 47 votes is all part of my master plan. Now everyone will think I'm weak when, in fact, I'm the strongest. And then, when they least expect it, I'll strike back and take over the entire ISML. It's foolproof. Hahahaha, I'm such a genius!
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maglor
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by maglor » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:15 am

Kordosa wrote:
maglor wrote:I checked the Hayate 2nd season episode 10 again. A girl, whose name was NOT revealed in the end credit, though Hayate did call her A-tan, appeared for total of 35 seconds. Compared to her, Misaki appeared for 210+ seconds. Misaki had her name in end credit as well. Furthermore, A-tan was in flashback scene. Misaki is at present. Misaki did something that impacted how season 2 will end, though out of viewers' sight. A-tan's flashback never came back and never affected anything during season 2, nor season 3. There is no way A-tan could have been ruled eligible . Comparing A-tan with Misaki would be like comparing a bowl of rice you had for last meal with Amount of rice in 10 cup Rice Cooker a mother prepares for a large Family Dinner.
So can you verify that guideline 5 of Article III, section 2 of the ISML Constitution is referring to a character having an appearance or role in the anime production alone, rather than considering whether or not they have a role in the source material (light novels or manga) since the source materials may feature the characters in content not yet animated? Clarification on that point would clear a lot of this up.
5. The character must either appear in the production on a regular basis or have individual significance to the series’ storyline.
Yes, it is anime production alone, because what happens in source material that did not appear in anime should be considered as spoiler. I guess we need to change that rule to reduce such misunderstanding.
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Re: RESULTS: 2014 Ruby 8

Post by Kordosa » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:18 am

maglor wrote:
Kordosa wrote:
maglor wrote:I checked the Hayate 2nd season episode 10 again. A girl, whose name was NOT revealed in the end credit, though Hayate did call her A-tan, appeared for total of 35 seconds. Compared to her, Misaki appeared for 210+ seconds. Misaki had her name in end credit as well. Furthermore, A-tan was in flashback scene. Misaki is at present. Misaki did something that impacted how season 2 will end, though out of viewers' sight. A-tan's flashback never came back and never affected anything during season 2, nor season 3. There is no way A-tan could have been ruled eligible . Comparing A-tan with Misaki would be like comparing a bowl of rice you had for last meal with Amount of rice in 10 cup Rice Cooker a mother prepares for a large Family Dinner.
So can you verify that guideline 5 of Article III, section 2 of the ISML Constitution is referring to a character having an appearance or role in the anime production alone, rather than considering whether or not they have a role in the source material (light novels or manga) since the source materials may feature the characters in content not yet animated? Clarification on that point would clear a lot of this up.
5. The character must either appear in the production on a regular basis or have individual significance to the series’ storyline.
Yes, it is anime production alone, because what happens in source material that did not appear in anime should be considered as spoiler. I guess we need to change that rule to reduce such misunderstanding.
I added an Edit note just now... sorry. Also, section 2 covers any appearance, including exhibition matches which is why I included the Edit note just now. Section 3 adds the additional rule for appearing the in Regular Season as being in an anime production. So therefore, now that I take that into account, the wording in Section 2 probably doesn't need to be changed specifically to address anime productions since that would make a lot of exhibition characters technically ineligible. I was simply asking for clarification from the point of view I stated in my Edit note.
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Crisu wrote:And, of course, never merge an anti-cookie with a normal cookie. Serious consequence will occur.
shiraoky wrote:I'm always squeeing lol.
Metaler wrote:Seriously, if you're gonna do something badly, then don't bother doing it. It's like when you take a dump: you don't show it to other people specifically because it's shit!
Kordosa wrote:Protip: If a male high school student character is voiced by a female seiyuu, there is a 100% probability that that character will be forced to crossdress at some point.
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