3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3]

Post by Momo » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:26 pm

MoodyWC lied to me very heartbreakingly last game :<

Revenge Time~
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3]

Post by Chibasa » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:46 pm

Never trust a Wanko !
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3]

Post by WoodyMC » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:50 pm

Momo wrote:MoodyWC lied to me very heartbreakingly last game :<
If you want logical excuse: Let's assume neither I nor any red PM you and every other Black did, your team will have little trouble finding teammates since the number fits perfectly. That's why even though the number is added up to 1 extra, sending PM to confuse your team is still a decent move.
Though in my case... yes, I am a trickster afterall =P

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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3]

Post by houreki » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:26 pm

Chibasa wrote:Never trust a Wanko !
Wanko is always hitler!
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3]

Post by Reverend » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:00 pm

Homura wrote:If there is ever gonna be more games, I'd like to propose a change that a player's allegiance should never be publicly revealed by the GM in the game.

Here is my reasoning. Say I'm Berserker of Red whose identity was publicly revealed in round 1 due to whatever reason. I then decided to PM every other player asking "Are you my teammate?". Now here is the thing. If the player doesn't answer yes, then apparently he/she is my enemy. Since my allegiance is publicly revealed by the GM (aka I'm 100% not lying), then <in a normal sense> there is no point for a player not to answer yes if he is my teammate. In other words, if an enemy player wants to hide his allegiance, in such a situation he is forced to answer yes and then start to act like an actor.

Here let's not discuss the possibility that some people may have trouble lying even in a game, the acting process is gonna be tedious or time consuming itself. For a game that has no real reward for the winner, spending time lying doesn't seem to be a nice thing to do at all regarding opportunity cost. Well, some may argue if it's a big game such as 7 vs. 7 or 10 vs. 10, leading your team to win through shrewd acting is a merit itself. I can agree with that, but if it's a small game such as 4 vs. 4, deliberate acting is pretty much a no reward thing to do. Then here comes the dilemma, lying won't be worth it, but if you choose not to lie (aka answering for example "I don't feel like to tell you"), then you fall into that strategy and have your allegiance revealed to that person.

In short, having player's allegiance publicly revealed by the GM can lead to a certain strategy (stated above) that will throw enemy players into a situation where either you get your allegiance revealed or you have to perform acting/lying that most players probably don't want for a few reasons. Hence, I suggest that change.
Actually, now I think of it. A good way to counter that strategy is to just answer yes no matter what. No one should be expected to reply PM frequently and quickly at this forum, so just answer yes and then reply to further PMs in a very slow manner, this type of acting should be pretty relaxing and also have effects.
Toady wrote:I don't fully agree with you Homura, because I think all this acting is part of the game. However, I think it's a bit sad that dead people, whose identity is publicly revealed, seem to have a more important role to play than alive players. And that's not very RP. I don't think we should forbid any kind of interaction between dead and alive players, but I wonder if there is a way to not make the first dead persons to act like team leaders ^^'
The answer to all of you questions is Rabbit's proposal: Assassinate doesn't instantly kill, teams are revealed from the start. No need of lying. Dead people don't become OP.
Problem with that, imo, is that it would make the game very... board game-ish. Or maybe more properly said: very linear. Like DoTA. Or like those MOBA thing that try so hard to make people classify DoTA as MOBA.

I do agree on his more "health point" idea, though I found his original 3 health to be... a bit too much.
But.. erm I don't know with you guys, but I like the anonymity people has to think about. Imo, this is a forum game, not an actual video game with software machine that can spare you from almost everything.

Too bad that the main reason why we play this reworked Game 1: so that Rabbit can see the game from a player's point of view, as well, had failed from the start.
Sad.
and yeah, 4v4 is just too few.
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3]

Post by Reverend » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:06 am

I already said I'm going to be lenient, so I will be lenient and wait for a few more hours for Toady to vote.
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Result]

Post by Reverend » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:07 pm

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I'm going to call mercy.
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by Chibasa » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:13 pm

That was a nice fight ! I have some feedback to give and I may bring up my version of game for fourth one in some hours ~
(Unless someone really desire to be GM next one)
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by shadowhunter » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:24 pm

GG WP!
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by shadowhunter » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:25 pm

If we are still going to have 8 players at max, maybe we should make Fuyuki version of HGW, where everyone vs everyone, i.e. without teams?
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3]

Post by Chibasa » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:26 pm

Homura wrote:If there is ever gonna be more games, I'd like to propose a change that a player's allegiance should never be publicly revealed by the GM in the game.

Here is my reasoning. Say I'm Berserker of Red whose identity was publicly revealed in round 1 due to whatever reason. I then decided to PM every other player asking "Are you my teammate?". Now here is the thing. If the player doesn't answer yes, then apparently he/she is my enemy. Since my allegiance is publicly revealed by the GM (aka I'm 100% not lying), then <in a normal sense> there is no point for a player not to answer yes if he is my teammate. In other words, if an enemy player wants to hide his allegiance, in such a situation he is forced to answer yes and then start to act like an actor.

Here let's not discuss the possibility that some people may have trouble lying even in a game, the acting process is gonna be tedious or time consuming itself. For a game that has no real reward for the winner, spending time lying doesn't seem to be a nice thing to do at all regarding opportunity cost. Well, some may argue if it's a big game such as 7 vs. 7 or 10 vs. 10, leading your team to win through shrewd acting is a merit itself. I can agree with that, but if it's a small game such as 4 vs. 4, deliberate acting is pretty much a no reward thing to do. Then here comes the dilemma, lying won't be worth it, but if you choose not to lie (aka answering for example "I don't feel like to tell you"), then you fall into that strategy and have your allegiance revealed to that person.

In short, having player's allegiance publicly revealed by the GM can lead to a certain strategy (stated above) that will throw enemy players into a situation where either you get your allegiance revealed or you have to perform acting/lying that most players probably don't want for a few reasons. Hence, I suggest that change.
Actually, now I think of it. A good way to counter that strategy is to just answer yes no matter what. No one should be expected to reply PM frequently and quickly at this forum, so just answer yes and then reply to further PMs in a very slow manner, this type of acting should be pretty relaxing and also have effects.
C/P my answer wrote:I think there are indeed some problems with how game works at some point, but mainly due to small amount of players.

If you push further reasoning you made, there is no reason for someone to not contact his dead teammates in the first place. He's a safe guy to talk. It's even better if you can prove who you are of course. But some roles offers this possibility. And more importantly you can get some info. I can know houreki's team, I still can't vote for him, so I need teammates to vote for him. Even if some people try trick me, I have enough people who can prove themselves to vote whoever I want. And people trying to trick me still take a risk.

Not mentionning I can totally assume in which team some people are because they did not contacted me after I offered a lot of propositions.

So in the end, If you're dead, you don't even need to contact people to check their team (except in case with afk ~)
The RNG luck on first round was really best thing we had this game I guess. Pretty unlucky for me, Corni was randomly killed on second round (since no red even voted for him actually, only the last black I didn't know yet #topkek).

I'm interested to know if you voted for Toady or Ezethan on last round for a specific reason or not, I was hoping you took him for berserker (no really hope for the faker) :(

*high-fives my ezethan* forever teammate, never losing ! :cooltongue:
I hope to be on houreki's and shadow's side once now =3
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by Momo » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:48 pm

Wait so did we win?

I would have used my ability and not assassinated because my ability would kill the killer. Presumably ezethan would have assassinated me but because of my ability, he would have died. His ability would have activated to kill his killer but since he is his own killer then he's dead twice over. Doesn't that make me still alive?

Doesn't that mean we win?

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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by Chibasa » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:22 pm

Your ability is wrote on cd on Revvie's picture.

Also, even if you could activate it, Ezethan had 0 interest to kill you as a Berserker, so wouldn't change much.
(Not killing = 0% win 100% tie 0% lose ; Killing = 0% win high% tie low% lose)
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by Homura » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:45 pm

Lol this is a little late, but Momo welcome to our team. I'll temporarily retire from this game. I'll join again when there are over 10 people wanting to play~
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by Reverend » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:15 pm

You know: no one gets it bcs the two Archers got killed last time, but I originally planned for GM Announcement to be an ability. So, yeah, it can be sealed, and on that round there will be no announcement at all except: you can start voting for the next round. (The result of the said round would be counted, though, so should anyone is killed during that round where GM is sealed, GM would discard his/her vote.)

Very sad that they died too early, the Archers.
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by ezethan97 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:54 pm

So people would die but we wouldn't know who died?
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by Momo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:53 am

Chibasa wrote:Your ability is wrote on cd on Revvie's picture.

Also, even if you could activate it, Ezethan had 0 interest to kill you as a Berserker, so wouldn't change much.
(Not killing = 0% win 100% tie 0% lose ; Killing = 0% win high% tie low% lose)
My CD ended this upcoming round. Also the killing = 0% win is only known retrospectively now that you know I was Lancer. If that's unknown then why kill = 0%?

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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by ezethan97 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:32 am

I would assume that you would kill me so if I killed you it would be a draw with a chance to lose if you're lancer. No kill means you kill me and you die also because I'm beserker. So it's a guaranteed draw. I can't win if you try to kill me.
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by Chibasa » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:53 am

Momo wrote:
Chibasa wrote:Your ability is wrote on cd on Revvie's picture.

Also, even if you could activate it, Ezethan had 0 interest to kill you as a Berserker, so wouldn't change much.
(Not killing = 0% win 100% tie 0% lose ; Killing = 0% win high% tie low% lose)
My CD ended this upcoming round. Also the killing = 0% win is only known retrospectively now that you know I was Lancer. If that's unknown then why kill = 0%?
It's not retrospective. I don't see any role you could have making it not 0% win. If you were not Lancer why would you not simply kill him? Why would you take risk to let him win when you're sure he can't just by killing him?
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Re: 3rd Holy Grail War [Round 3 Assassination]

Post by Homura » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:57 am

................

She simply means a possible situation where ezethan chooses to kill her under the circumstance that she uses her ability, while she chooses not to kill ezethan as Assassin. And she thinks in that case the killer who kills Berserker is not her (Lancer), so she won't die anyway.
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