Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by maglor » Tue May 01, 2012 7:38 am

Elvinsky wrote:I dislike tsundere who:
- Use the most extreme/abusive of ways to show their tsun side. e.g.: A whip, or a megaton punch (anime!version).
- Only show their dere side in the most rarest of occasions, only for them to suddenly go back to their extreme tsun ways--even if the male protagonist reciprocates the tsundere's dere side with some dere of his own.

@Maglor: How would you rate Naru on your Tsundere scale?
Narusegawa Naru , I am guessing somewhere around 6 to 8. There is a bit room of doubt due to her unusual 'luck' involving the male lead.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Jack_Rav » Tue May 01, 2012 9:23 am

maglor wrote:
Jack_Rav wrote:
maglor wrote:
Jack_Rav wrote:^ To that scale, I would like to add:

Hiiragi Kagami: 1 to 2
Interesting score for Kagami .
Perhaps in hindsight, 0-1/0-2. Where would you put Kagami on the scale, then? ^^;
Around 4 considering how she reacts to Konata and also to her sisters.
I don't think she ever resorts to any real violence, though. Mikoto, for instance, has resorted to violence at some points. (Although perhaps this is slightly incorrect)
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by maglor » Tue May 01, 2012 10:06 am

Jack_Rav wrote:
maglor wrote:
Jack_Rav wrote:
maglor wrote:
Jack_Rav wrote:^ To that scale, I would like to add:

Hiiragi Kagami: 1 to 2
Interesting score for Kagami .
Perhaps in hindsight, 0-1/0-2. Where would you put Kagami on the scale, then? ^^;
Around 4 considering how she reacts to Konata and also to her sisters.
I don't think she ever resorts to any real violence, though. Mikoto, for instance, has resorted to violence at some points. (Although perhaps this is slightly incorrect)
true. I may not have the right score for Kagami. Mikoto should have higher score compared to Kagami
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Elvinsky » Fri May 04, 2012 2:45 pm

Bastion wrote:
Elvinsky wrote:I dislike tsundere who:
- Use the most extreme/abusive of ways to show their tsun side. e.g.: A whip, or a megaton punch (anime!version).
- Only show their dere side in the most rarest of occasions, only for them to suddenly go back to their extreme tsun ways--even if the male protagonist reciprocates the tsundere's dere side with some dere of his own.

@Maglor: How would you rate Naru on your Tsundere scale?
So what level of Tsun is acceptable according to your scale? Anything below a 7 or so?

I don't dislike Tsundere's generally, 'evil' ojou's tend to annoy me more often.
Pretty much, I guess. As long as the tsundere doesn't exhibit those above two traits and/or goes overboard with them, they're okay in my book.

Besides, I'm not too fond of being an "M."

@maglor: Naru has "unusual luck involving the male lead"? How so? (Sorry, it's been a long time since I last saw Love Hina and I haven't seen some of the OAV specials, so a refresher would be nice. ^^;) And how would Akane Tendo fare on the scale?
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by maglor » Sat May 05, 2012 9:51 pm

Elvinsky wrote:
@maglor: Naru has "unusual luck involving the male lead"? How so? (Sorry, it's been a long time since I last saw Love Hina and I haven't seen some of the OAV specials, so a refresher would be nice. ^^;) And how would Akane Tendo fare on the scale?
Naru is prone to be involved in some accident with the male lead.

Akane Tendo, I would give between 5 to 7.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by chaosprophet » Sat May 12, 2012 6:33 pm

Another point to consider is, is the tsun part, something regarding how the character acts with anyone or almost anyone? Only with loved/close ones? Only with an specific person?

Louise tsun for instance comes from very low self esteem, both as a mage (even though she comes from the second most important noble family in her country she was, apparently, a complete failure as a mage) and as a woman (because of her underdeveloped body, although lolicons would disagree XD). That way she acts around almost all her peers in a harsh way, the nobles because of the natural relation full of pride between all of them, the peasants because of how nobles are taught to act, and Saito because a mix of reasons (the way he acts around all girls even though sometimes he would act as if Louise was his one and only, the usual relationship hierarchy between a mage and her familiar, noble x peasant, etc).

Now Naru for instance tend to treat her friends and the Hinata girls with care likely somewhere on the -4, and her crush with tons of dereness, near the -10 level. The one character she is very tsundere with is Keitarou, which comes from many situations where Keitarou really gave her bad impressions, mostly because of he being so unlucky. You also add to that that she suddenly is forced to deal with that guy who seems a pervert. Slowly she starts warming up and end up liking him, but that results in more tsun because she can't really accept she happened to like him, after all even though he showed his good pints that made her fall from him, he is still that same loser and pervert that constantly shows his bad side (the reader/viewers knows it's just his lack of luck, but for someone on the story is hard to believe someone could do it that often just as mistakes). And you add the fact that deep inside she don't want to accept there is someone else on her hart besides her cursh who she have been into for a long time.

So the point I'm trying to make is, can we really give someone a "tsundere" value as if it meant for the character overall, or check every case and their circumstances?
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by maglor » Sat May 12, 2012 10:40 pm

chaosprophet wrote:Another point to consider is, is the tsun part, something regarding how the character acts with anyone or almost anyone? Only with loved/close ones? Only with an specific person?

Louise tsun for instance comes from very low self esteem, both as a mage (even though she comes from the second most important noble family in her country she was, apparently, a complete failure as a mage) and as a woman (because of her underdeveloped body, although lolicons would disagree XD). That way she acts around almost all her peers in a harsh way, the nobles because of the natural relation full of pride between all of them, the peasants because of how nobles are taught to act, and Saito because a mix of reasons (the way he acts around all girls even though sometimes he would act as if Louise was his one and only, the usual relationship hierarchy between a mage and her familiar, noble x peasant, etc).

Now Naru for instance tend to treat her friends and the Hinata girls with care likely somewhere on the -4, and her crush with tons of dereness, near the -10 level. The one character she is very tsundere with is Keitarou, which comes from many situations where Keitarou really gave her bad impressions, mostly because of he being so unlucky. You also add to that that she suddenly is forced to deal with that guy who seems a pervert. Slowly she starts warming up and end up liking him, but that results in more tsun because she can't really accept she happened to like him, after all even though he showed his good pints that made her fall from him, he is still that same loser and pervert that constantly shows his bad side (the reader/viewers knows it's just his lack of luck, but for someone on the story is hard to believe someone could do it that often just as mistakes). And you add the fact that deep inside she don't want to accept there is someone else on her hart besides her cursh who she have been into for a long time.

So the point I'm trying to make is, can we really give someone a "tsundere" value as if it meant for the character overall, or check every case and their circumstances?
This is a tough question, to which I believe people may answer differently.

As for I, the best measure of Tsundereness is dependent on the 'opportunity'. So Given the chance for the character to exhibit typical tsundere response, what is the probability that the character indeed respond in tsundere manner? Also to take into account, how often the character deliberately venture into situation that is likely to lead to tsundere response opportunity? If the character's probability is high in the first account and if the character also don't exercise proper caution to avoid undesirable situation that may lead to embarrassing situation, I think the character should get high tsundere score.

Now in case of Naru, too much of the manga is focused on the main male lead, so Naru's score may be skewed. Nevertheless, we shouldn't make too much assumptions about things we did not see. So while Overall tsundere score of 6 to 8 might be too high, given how Naru acts towards other person, you have to also consider that Naru isn't given much opportunity to act in tusndere manner to others, thus I would be very hesitant to go below 4 for Naru's Tsundere score.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by chaosprophet » Sat May 12, 2012 11:16 pm

The problem with the idea of opportunity is, can we really consider the character acted like that because of a harsh nature that she was "hiding", where the fault may just be because of the situation and because someone pushed just the wrong buttons of someone strong willed enough to fight for something and who isn't the kind that don't take anything seriously. In Naru's case for instance it does seems to me, for the reason I posted, that her situation with Keitarou is very unique with the situation showed, and would only give her a tsundereness score for that specific relationship and not for the character overall.

Shiori for instance, when Keima push all the right buttons she goes and try to shout at him. That was the most she could do as she is more weak-willed and shy, but is that what you call a normal reaction from someone? A normal one would go from ignoring to try arguing about it, but I'm sure no one would consider her a tsundere just for that.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Bastion » Sat May 12, 2012 11:39 pm

Another case of 'situational' is probably Hinagiku, and it's even more pronounced, since only two characters have managed to force her 'Tsun' nature (with a third, unnamed case), while everyone seems to be a target of her '-dere' moments at times. And those moments tend to fall flat when she tries to apply them to her tsun targets.

Nagi is more of a wide-band tsundere, from the same story.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Silver21 » Wed May 16, 2012 1:59 pm

i really like tsunderes~

imma great fan of shana so liking her "tsun" side is an understatement
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by deon13 » Thu May 17, 2012 9:51 am

i dislike stundere, becuse they always fall in love with hopeless guys. just like kirino and shana
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Wolfnagi » Thu May 17, 2012 1:29 pm

deon13 wrote:i dislike stundere, becuse they always fall in love with hopeless guys. just like kirino and shana
If you meant hopeless such as Kyousuke (literally mirrors my life) or Yuuji, you haven't watch much shows, my friend.

Especially Yuuji. Everyone knows he's just that crazy awesome in Seirei no Hebi mode :cool:
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by xcrossfacekillahx » Thu May 17, 2012 2:52 pm

deon13 wrote:i dislike stundere, becuse they always fall in love with hopeless guys. just like kirino and shana
You could also blame the guy for choosing the tsundere instead of someone better.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Jeffrey-sama » Thu May 17, 2012 5:12 pm

deon13 wrote:i dislike stundere, becuse they always fall in love with hopeless guys. just like kirino and shana
>Hopeless
>Kyousuke
Are we watching the same show?

As far as I could tell, Kyousuke is one of the better male protagonists I have seen.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Nepommic » Fri May 18, 2012 7:15 pm

They were actually good character. Yuuji was not usually in the final season but it was a pointless story and ruined Shakugan no Shana for me. but just a biit
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Cross » Tue May 29, 2012 2:43 pm

Maybe real-life tsunderes are annoying.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Elvinsky » Tue May 29, 2012 3:56 pm

Cross wrote:Maybe real-life tsunderes are annoying.
Just like dojikko characters, tsunderes are cute in fiction, but annoying in real life.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by Nanakon » Tue May 29, 2012 5:14 pm

Tsundere? Like of course!
How could you resist those fists and whips??(Or is it just me? ;P )

I just like how tsunderes offer us two different seasonings in our meals known as anime. The reliable and spicy type and the vulnerable and ridiculously cute sweet side which in my opinion, gives the best sense of achievement socially (although the main char does not realize his legendary feat) in any series.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by MightySpirit » Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:02 pm

Like. Definitely. Tsundere is my favorite archetype after all.

I honestly like almost all of the tsundere characters that I run across. The more vicious tsunderes that pretty much come off as just being bitchy (excuse my language) tend to fall much lower on the scale for me, but I'll usually still like them. I don't mind the whole short-temptered trait, but it depends on how they display it. The thing I love about them most is that for some reason I just find it irresistibly adorable to see a strong-willed character that I already like and respect suddenly began to blush over silly matters because they don't know how to properly express their feelings or aren't use to expressing them.

But sometimes it just doesn't make much sense for me to like some of the tsunderes that I do, especially since a lot of times I'll be one of the few who actually like that particular character, so it's sort of hard for me to describe exactly why I love them so much. But there's just something about how that archetype is portrayed that really strikes a chord with me and makes me love them. They've just got that something that I really love about them.
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Re: Tsundere - Like, Dislike, Why?

Post by DurianDude » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:08 am

Tsundere is okay I guess. I like it when they get flustered, but they're not my favorite archetype. I prefer characters that are more socially awkward and easily flusterable, like Kotomi-chan. I also like quiet characters like Yin or Hellscythe more.
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