2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

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2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by maglor » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:51 am

We really have lots of virtual characters, game avatars, meta-characters, and alternate personalities in Anime these days. May be we should have an exhibition tournament for these characters, especially those with attractive virtual characters and avatars that are sadly left out of the main event due to eligibility standards. Ideas?
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by Reverend » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:54 am

How will you treat Kirito and the rest of SAO cast?
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by Karob » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:13 pm

I have an idea.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by maglor » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:00 pm

Reverend wrote:How will you treat Kirito and the rest of SAO cast?
That's another headache of its own... Currently, I don't have clear idea how.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by maglor » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:01 pm

Karob wrote:I have an idea.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by Reverend » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:16 pm

maglor wrote:
Reverend wrote:How will you treat Kirito and the rest of SAO cast?
That's another headache of its own... Currently, I don't have clear idea how.
tbh, I think it's time you guys think again about how Rule 8 should be applied.

How do you see the issue of real life personalities and meta-personalities? Are they the same? Are they different? If they are different, how different?
Since, you know, it's a very relevant issue atm. With how easy-to-access, easy-to-do internet chatting has been in the past 10 years or so, the amount of role-playing and multi-personalities issues has grown in an unprecedented rate.
(While I'm at it, I should also ask: how did Rule 8 born? What was the argument that made you guys take this directive whenever cases like Lily occur?)

Also, what makes an entity inside anime relevant enough to be seen as an eligible character for ISML?
If we follow the usual method, then as long as she/he appears and says at least 3 lines, she/he is already eligible to participate.
But, tbh, that rule is so vague any background and props character would have been eligible if only they had got enough nomination.
So, here, I'd like to ask that question again.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by maglor » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:21 pm

Reverend wrote:
maglor wrote:
Reverend wrote:How will you treat Kirito and the rest of SAO cast?
That's another headache of its own... Currently, I don't have clear idea how.
tbh, I think it's time you guys think again about how Rule 8 should be applied.

How do you see the issue of real life personalities and meta-personalities? Are they the same? Are they different? If they are different, how different?
Since, you know, it's a very relevant issue atm. With how easy-to-access, easy-to-do internet chatting has been in the past 10 years or so, the amount of role-playing and multi-personalities issues has grown in an unprecedented rate.
(While I'm at it, I should also ask: how did Rule 8 born? What was the argument that made you guys take this directive whenever cases like Lily occur?)

Also, what makes an entity inside anime relevant enough to be seen as an eligible character for ISML?
If we follow the usual method, then as long as she/he appears and says at least 3 lines, she/he is already eligible to participate.
But, tbh, that rule is so vague any background and props character would have been eligible if only they had got enough nomination.
So, here, I'd like to ask that question again.
What I can answer is the birth . At the beginning, there were the debate about what moe is, and ISML decided to roughly follow course similar to AST and KBM, thus have only the females. If you check the prelim records, some characters did give us headaches, and KBM flip flopped on several occasions in its history. KBM used to be the tournament with the most "open" eligibility rule : If the character ever possess female biology in actually broadcasted episode, the character will be considered female for all purpose. This would make someone like Lily, who is as female as any being can be in the game setting, definitely eligible. KBM could afford to do that because they had male division and female division at different time of the year. ISML does not. We quickly decided that we don't want a character to be in both divisions at once, giving them potentially unfair advantage over other characters, so ISML took a bit of hard line approach to the character gender question : We go by the true gender of the character when possible, and in case of virtual characters, we decided that virtual characters were like cosplaying and cross dressing, thus it is the non-virtual characters that mattered.

Here is the potential "bad" scenario : If Lily makes it to the Fall Seasonal Final, and I actually think the chance is good, she will be in 2018 Aquamarine Female division. But Sakurai is definitely male, thus he should be eligible for male division, and being a nice guy, many people will nominate him. That will make us have both Lily and Sakurai in the Aquamarine period. Lot of people will cry foul at this "Double Chance" situation. Past years' data do suggest slight boost to the characters when they appear more than once in the voting page, so their cry do have some validity.This is what we wanted to avoid, as we would need some assurance that more people don't mind this "Double Chance" compared to those that do mind. For Fall Seasonal, we didn't have the time to build some consensus at this front.

Therefore, if we want to change the rule for Lily and other characters like her, we need to make appropriate question(s) for the end of the year survey, which we can use to bring legitimacy to whether we change the gender eligibility rule or not. If you seriously want to rethink the gender eligibility, please give us what you think is(are) the appropriate question(s) to ask.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by Reverend » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:34 am

maglor wrote: What I can answer is the birth . At the beginning, there were the debate about what moe is, and ISML decided to roughly follow course similar to AST and KBM, thus have only the females. If you check the prelim records, some characters did give us headaches, and KBM flip flopped on several occasions in its history. KBM used to be the tournament with the most "open" eligibility rule : If the character ever possess female biology in actually broadcasted episode, the character will be considered female for all purpose. This would make someone like Lily, who is as female as any being can be in the game setting, definitely eligible. KBM could afford to do that because they had male division and female division at different time of the year. ISML does not. We quickly decided that we don't want a character to be in both divisions at once, giving them potentially unfair advantage over other characters, so ISML took a bit of hard line approach to the character gender question : We go by the true gender of the character when possible, and in case of virtual characters, we decided that virtual characters were like cosplaying and cross dressing, thus it is the non-virtual characters that mattered.

Here is the potential "bad" scenario : If Lily makes it to the Fall Seasonal Final, and I actually think the chance is good, she will be in 2018 Aquamarine Female division. But Sakurai is definitely male, thus he should be eligible for male division, and being a nice guy, many people will nominate him. That will make us have both Lily and Sakurai in the Aquamarine period. Lot of people will cry foul at this "Double Chance" situation. Past years' data do suggest slight boost to the characters when they appear more than once in the voting page, so their cry do have some validity.This is what we wanted to avoid, as we would need some assurance that more people don't mind this "Double Chance" compared to those that do mind. For Fall Seasonal, we didn't have the time to build some consensus at this front.

Therefore, if we want to change the rule for Lily and other characters like her, we need to make appropriate question(s) for the end of the year survey, which we can use to bring legitimacy to whether we change the gender eligibility rule or not. If you seriously want to rethink the gender eligibility, please give us what you think is(are) the appropriate question(s) to ask.
I fail to see how being on two divisions at once is more advantage than "looking like a girl, competing in male division" and vice versa.
and actually, it might potentially bring more loses than benefits, instead. (Like, sometimes trap characters got antivoted bcs they're trap. It's the similar case. Some people think the character cheats, that's why they antivote him/her.)

But you said you have past data that showed tendency towards a boost, so here I ask: how did you do the experiment? Is it "the same character, the same look" or "real life character and meta, online character"?

ps.: also you're overestimating Lily. She's not... Astolfo level.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by maglor » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:05 pm

Reverend wrote:
maglor wrote: What I can answer is the birth . At the beginning, there were the debate about what moe is, and ISML decided to roughly follow course similar to AST and KBM, thus have only the females. If you check the prelim records, some characters did give us headaches, and KBM flip flopped on several occasions in its history. KBM used to be the tournament with the most "open" eligibility rule : If the character ever possess female biology in actually broadcasted episode, the character will be considered female for all purpose. This would make someone like Lily, who is as female as any being can be in the game setting, definitely eligible. KBM could afford to do that because they had male division and female division at different time of the year. ISML does not. We quickly decided that we don't want a character to be in both divisions at once, giving them potentially unfair advantage over other characters, so ISML took a bit of hard line approach to the character gender question : We go by the true gender of the character when possible, and in case of virtual characters, we decided that virtual characters were like cosplaying and cross dressing, thus it is the non-virtual characters that mattered.

Here is the potential "bad" scenario : If Lily makes it to the Fall Seasonal Final, and I actually think the chance is good, she will be in 2018 Aquamarine Female division. But Sakurai is definitely male, thus he should be eligible for male division, and being a nice guy, many people will nominate him. That will make us have both Lily and Sakurai in the Aquamarine period. Lot of people will cry foul at this "Double Chance" situation. Past years' data do suggest slight boost to the characters when they appear more than once in the voting page, so their cry do have some validity.This is what we wanted to avoid, as we would need some assurance that more people don't mind this "Double Chance" compared to those that do mind. For Fall Seasonal, we didn't have the time to build some consensus at this front.

Therefore, if we want to change the rule for Lily and other characters like her, we need to make appropriate question(s) for the end of the year survey, which we can use to bring legitimacy to whether we change the gender eligibility rule or not. If you seriously want to rethink the gender eligibility, please give us what you think is(are) the appropriate question(s) to ask.
I fail to see how being on two divisions at once is more advantage than "looking like a girl, competing in male division" and vice versa.
and actually, it might potentially bring more loses than benefits, instead. (Like, sometimes trap characters got antivoted bcs they're trap. It's the similar case. Some people think the character cheats, that's why they antivote him/her.)

But you said you have past data that showed tendency towards a boost, so here I ask: how did you do the experiment? Is it "the same character, the same look" or "real life character and meta, online character"?

ps.: also you're overestimating Lily. She's not... Astolfo level.
The experiment wasn't set up deliberately, thus lacked control. The results were compared to the general expectations, where expectations were calculated by comparing all the fantasy predictions that people submitted. More often than not, the character whose name appeared more than once in a match day, usually due to exhibition match, had vf% better than expected value.

Since quality of data is poor, I am willing to revisit this issue, but I also want to know what is the attitude of the general public. This is why I think we need to ask about this and related issues in the end of the year survey. What I would like to request is help with making those questions for the survey.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by maglor » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:19 pm

Since it is hard to set the boundaries and eligibility rules, let's first make a list characters people would probably want in this event, and another list for characters people probably don't want in this event. Once we have sizable list of names in both list, perhaps we can better define the boundary and eligibility. Please feel free to suggest names for these lists.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by Reverend » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:24 pm

Okay, people, list them out.
Everything's eligible, at this point. (We're going to talk about them one by one, eventually.)
The only criteria is that "it's a virtual entity, be it real life, or in anime."
Also the usual "please nominate character that won't get us sued."

- Lily @ Net-juu no Susume
- Lilac @ Net-juu no Susume
- Hatsune Miku @ the world
- Kizuna Ai @ youtube
- Asuna @ Rabbit Stew Restaurant
- Sinon @ Sword Art Online
- Lisbeth @ Sword Art Online
- Leafa @ Sword Art Online
- Black Lotus @ Accel World (though... I don't know, she doesn't look like a girl.)

Who else? Choujigen Neptune series? Or that virtual idol that Hocchan voices (who's her name, again?)

ps.: Male virtual, so far, is also eligible. I just haven't put them.
Last edited by Reverend on Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by maglor » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:28 pm

Reverend wrote:Okay, people, list them out.
Everything's eligible, at this point. (We're going to talk about them one by one, eventually.)
The only criteria is that "it's a virtual entity, be it real life, or in anime."
Also the usual "please nominate character that won't get us sued."

- Lily @ Net-juu no Susume
- Lilac @ Net-juu no Susume
- Hatsune Miku @ the world
- Kizuna Ai @ youtube
- Asuna @ Rabbit Stew Restaurant
- Sinon @ Sword Art Online
- Lisbeth @ Sword Art Online
- Leafa @ Sword Art Online
- Black Lotus @ Sword Art Online (though... I don't know, she doesn't look like a girl.)

Who else? Choujigen Neptune series? Or that virtual idol that Hocchan voices (who's her name, again?)

ps.: Male virtual, so far, is also eligible. I just haven't put them.
Black Lotus do have feminine features
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by exec » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:21 pm

VOCALOIDKancolleTouhou
Luka MegurineShimakazeHakurei Reimu
IAMurakumoKirisame Marisa
Rin KagamineRyuujouFlandre Scarlet
SeeUHibikiCirno
GUMIYuudachiAlice Margatroid
Teto KasaneSamidareRemilia Scarlet
Haku YowaneI-401Patchouli Knowledge
LilyAmatsukazeKoishi Komeiji
Yukari YuzukiRo-500Fujiwara no Mokou
etc.LibeccioIbuki Suika
Does this count, also there are many more in those franchises, I just picked some randomly.
[email protected]
[email protected]!ME!ME!
[email protected]!ME!ME!
Gorillaz
[email protected] Punk
Miss [email protected] Monochrome
μ'[email protected] LIve
[email protected]
[email protected]
Saint [email protected]
AKB∞[email protected]
i☆[email protected]/Pretty Rhythm
Prizmmy☆@Pripara/Pretty Rhythm
Prism☆[email protected]/Pretty Rhythm
I-1 [email protected] Up, Girls!
NEXT [email protected] Up, Girls!
Run Girls, [email protected] Up, Girls!
Wake Up, [email protected] Up, Girls!
also there is The [email protected], I'm not even going to pretend to understand anything about it...
Lynn [email protected] Super Dimension Fortress Macross
Sheryl [email protected] F
Ranka [email protected] F
Walkü[email protected] Δ
STAR☆[email protected]
AIKATSU☆[email protected]
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by WoodyMC » Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:43 pm

I dont know if this counts, but also Maid-chan from Sakura-sou, Alter Ego in Danganronpa, and literally everyone from Overlord and Rockman.exe. Log Horizon could be in depended on the eligibility.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by exec » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:48 pm

Hanasaki [email protected] PreCure!
Hino [email protected] Smile PreCure!
Kenzaki [email protected] Doki! PreCure
Aino [email protected] Charge PreCure!
Kouyama [email protected] Moon wo Sagashite
⇢voiced by idols
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by houreki » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:52 pm

Ritsu from AssClass ?
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by IGNITE » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:38 pm

What about virtual characters of other animal forms that speaks human language?
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by LeaderMagnet » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:42 pm

What about a Virtual Youtuber tournament? The community is growing so rapidly right now.
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Re: 2018 Virtual Characters Tournament?

Post by Homura » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:40 pm

LeaderMagnet wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:42 pm
What about a Virtual Youtuber tournament? The community is growing so rapidly right now.
But Ai-chan will just crush everyone else.
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