Feedback on Love & Live

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Chocola
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Feedback on Love & Live

Post by Chocola » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:02 am

General feedback please. Go in detail on whether or not you want to keep L&L, bring H/H back, or put them on a rotation.
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by WoodyMC » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:12 am

You already had mine so i don't have to say again rite? ~
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by Reverend » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:04 am

Feedback:
- Need clear deadline. (Need more than one Chibasa to lock the thread when it's past deadline. (I thought senior members can, I wonder why no one did.))

- L/L is better because it's simpler in main idea and in execution, and thanks to that, it's also less error-prone compared to H/H. But, because it's simpler, it has less room for maneuvers.
I mean: in the end, L/L depends on who grinds the most (no matter how much handicap future round winners may get,)
while in H/H, you could put stupid tactic like putting decoys, or hurting your beloved character so that her health stays on the same level as any other contestant thus she/he is spared from early culling, etc.
ps.: these "maneuvers" was also the reason why we're moving to L/L in the first place. Because some of these "maneuvers" were so straightforwardly cruel it actually broke friendships. :lol:

- Here's the big problem: because the main idea of L/L is about "Love, don't hate", there will be no room for any hurt feature.
Thus is the reason why L/L relies on grinding a lot.
Currently: the only "hurt" we have now is via Live boost. That's not actually a "hurt". Yeah, it can be used to hurt, but it's not a hurt tool originally.
In order to add more dimension to the game, we need a hurt tool. But any hurt tool that might be applied will not be in line with the main idea of "love, don't hate." well, fairly speaking, the concept of love in L/L isn't complete, and shows the maker's lack of love experience in real life. blame Rail.
Sure, there are features that can be used to delay, but "delaying" isn't "hurting".

I'm pretty sure I made notes in my mind about what I wanted to say should this thread comes up, but I cannot find it. :arrowed:
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by Desufire » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:13 pm

Feedback:

-Straight up Love/Live is boring. There were very few people who were engaged in Aquamarine and even less so in Topaz because of the obvious winner
-Love/Live has too many restrictions and manages to bore and confuse people even more, ESPECIALLY if you aren't extremely active and don't remember your previous votes.
-To fix the "obvious winner" problem we have to add MORE restrictions to players.
-The winner is decided by spam activity, which is actively discouraged in H/H. The winner is never straight up known in H/H because Hurts are more powerful and plentiful than heals.
-There are WAY too many rules (H/H also has this problem, but most of them are just "don't be rude and don't mess up/cause errors") and it is very unwelcoming to new players.
-The only reason negativity was decreased was because the actual player base was decreased. There was no drive for players to play.
-Once all your favorites are gone, there's really nothing for you to do.
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by Chibasa » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:53 pm

WoodyMC wrote:You already had mine so i don't have to say again rite? ~
It's always good to share it with everyone :3
Desufire wrote:Feedback:

-Straight up Love/Live is boring. There were very few people who were engaged in Aquamarine and even less so in Topaz because of the obvious winner
-Love/Live has too many restrictions and manages to bore and confuse people even more, ESPECIALLY if you aren't extremely active and don't remember your previous votes.
-To fix the "obvious winner" problem we have to add MORE restrictions to players.
Even if I think L/L had less active players, I think it's hard to estimate how much it's linked to L/L itself and how much it's linked to other reasons.
I'm not that pessimist about how fixing "obvious winner" problem. I think we can even add strategy with a new rule (fixing this problem) which is very simple (but i'll talk about it later on L/L thread, I want to catch Eater or RS before to get some useful informations about ?????? ... =3)

About my own feedback:

I think both L/L and H/H have their qualities.
H/H is for now more entertaining, and people are more used to it. Like Desu said, it's maybe easier for newcomers to start play it.
On the other side L/L is more safe about all possible drama, is less time consuming for players, can still evolve a bit more with time (more possible progression) and have a cooler name.

I think rotating game mode could be good, as long as we see how L/L can still evolve. I'm looking forward more feedback messages.
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by blaZofgold » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:38 pm

Love Live is a bad show with bad idols. I think what really hurts it the most though is the writing...its very immature and is not afraid to be completely cheesy and insubstantial. All the dramas tend to be blown out with very few realistic elements. Characters are also hard type-casted tropes and it's hard to appreciate any sort of complexity whatsoever. Even their songs are just rehashes of older anime-related music. Love Live embodies what it means to mass produce entertainment, media, and culture based on fan service, so there's really no art in it to appreciate whatsoever.

I'm really curious why Tsumikitty is asking about feedback for such a bad show...
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First off, H/H is super cancerous and boring. Unfortunately it's also really appealing, but I think that's a result of internet dwellers being attracted to cancer for some reason or another. The game is especially bad when the community playing it is somewhat close, every time I get a bunch of PMs asking me to side and its a real hassle. Lots of heated emotions and whatnot. Pretty over it.

L/L looks to be good but the rules are a real handful, also my game designer instinct is telling me there's some balancing issues with the game. Most specifically, the insane amount of restrictions on who you can't interact with makes the game very difficult to play. I would suggest a simplified version of the game, but I think it fundamentally can work on the same level as H/H except possibly with less hate. Maybe move away from the "cull the stragglers" and structure it like a race.

Ex.
When a character reaches 100, that character is removed the list, and there's a deadline for characters to reach 100.
All character who dont reach 100 at that time are culled respectively, and the placing is determined by order of finish.
Forum Ver. lets say Momo reaches 100 first, followed by exec, Railwarrior, and Grish. Tsumikitty, Just, and blaZofgold have 89, 84, and 80 respectively by the deadline.
The order would be 1. Momo, 2. exec, 3. Rail, 4. Grish. 5-7 could be ordered but since they didnt make it its not important.
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by Magnux7 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:50 pm

Honestly, I agree with Desufire's feedback.
I tried playing L/L every now and then, but for me it got boring really quickly.

As Desu said, if enough people just stay active and "spam" heal on their favorite, then the winner is decided already.
In H/H though, you have to play way more tactically. If you are "too active", then it will only backfire on you (personal experience :lol: ).
Hurt and Heal is generally more tense and nerve-wracking, which makes it very entertaining :cooltongue:
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by smartboyhw » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:33 am

blaZofgold wrote:Love Live is a bad show with bad idols. I think what really hurts it the most though is the writing...its very immature and is not afraid to be completely cheesy and insubstantial. All the dramas tend to be blown out with very few realistic elements. Characters are also hard type-casted tropes and it's hard to appreciate any sort of complexity whatsoever. Even their songs are just rehashes of older anime-related music. Love Live embodies what it means to mass produce entertainment, media, and culture based on fan service, so there's really no art in it to appreciate whatsoever.

I'm really curious why Tsumikitty is asking about feedback for such a bad show...
Before someone shoots me IM OBVIOUSLY TROLLINGShow
First off, H/H is super cancerous and boring. Unfortunately it's also really appealing, but I think that's a result of internet dwellers being attracted to cancer for some reason or another. The game is especially bad when the community playing it is somewhat close, every time I get a bunch of PMs asking me to side and its a real hassle. Lots of heated emotions and whatnot. Pretty over it.

L/L looks to be good but the rules are a real handful, also my game designer instinct is telling me there's some balancing issues with the game. Most specifically, the insane amount of restrictions on who you can't interact with makes the game very difficult to play. I would suggest a simplified version of the game, but I think it fundamentally can work on the same level as H/H except possibly with less hate. Maybe move away from the "cull the stragglers" and structure it like a race.

Ex.
When a character reaches 100, that character is removed the list, and there's a deadline for characters to reach 100.
All character who dont reach 100 at that time are culled respectively, and the placing is determined by order of finish.
Forum Ver. lets say Momo reaches 100 first, followed by exec, Railwarrior, and Grish. Tsumikitty, Just, and blaZofgold have 89, 84, and 80 respectively by the deadline.
The order would be 1. Momo, 2. exec, 3. Rail, 4. Grish. 5-7 could be ordered but since they didnt make it its not important.
You shall get shot by Tsumikitty for calling this a boring show (if you weren't trolling that part).

OK so:
1. H/H is so cancerous that it's ROTTEN entertainment (I do not deny it's more entertaining). Please don't resurrect it or else I'm going to get spammed by complaint PMs.
2. Think of a way to shorten the L/L game, e.g. blaZ's suggestion. It DOES get boring when it's too long AND people already know who the winner is going to be.
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by Chocola » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:08 am

tl;dr

we tried something new cuz the previous thing was cancer

the new thing was boring cuz people liked the cancer
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Re: Feedback on Love & Live

Post by blaZofgold » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:41 am

Tsumikitty wrote:tl;dr

we tried something new cuz the previous thing was cancer

the new thing was boring cuz people liked the cancer
sounds about right
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