2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Nominations and other events occurring before the Main Tournament
User avatar
RailWarrior
Space cowboy
Space cowboy
Posts: 2973
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:44 pm
Badges:
ImageImage
Melon Pan: 307
2018 Female Favorite: Nishimiya Shōko
2018 Male Favorite: Todoroki Shōto

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by RailWarrior » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:54 am

More favorite characters into Prelims >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More favorite characters into RS.

I actually went to look over charter after reading Homura's post. Doesn't say anything about how Prelims are seeded :P
User avatar
Chocola
Hikarin's Kitty
Hikarin's Kitty
Posts: 7457
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:31 am
Worships: Kousaka Reina
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: Hikachu to not hate me

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Chocola » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:03 am

Well, I stand corrected. It's maglor's oversight that this clause is worded badly:

D. Remaining Candidates after Rounds 1 through 4 are divided into new groups based on their performance in the previous round.

What it should actually say is that: "Candidates in Rounds 1 through 5 are divided into new groups based on their performance in the previous round." For Round 1, the previous round would be the nominations.

Note that in 2014, we did say this:

2. Candidates are regrouped in each round based on their performance in the previous round.
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
MAL Ratings ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki
A tall, towering wall looms in front of me. Beyond that is something that I could never to see on my own.
And that is...the view from the top.
User avatar
Homura
[Apprentice Magician]
[Apprentice Magician]
Posts: 3071
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:25 am
Badges:
Melon Pan: 55
2020 Female Favorite: Shiina Mashiro
2020 Male Favorite: Lelouch Lamperouge
2019 Female Favorite: Makise Kurisu
2019 Male Favorite: Levi
2018 Female Favorite: Makise Kurisu
2018 Male Favorite: Yukihira Sōma
Location: China

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Homura » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:14 am

Kholdy wrote:Well, I stand corrected. It's maglor's oversight that this clause is worded badly:

D. Remaining Candidates after Rounds 1 through 4 are divided into new groups based on their performance in the previous round.

What it should actually say is that: "Candidates in Rounds 1 through 4 are divided into new groups based on their performance in the previous round." For Round 1, the previous round would be the nominations.
I suggest giving Round 1 a special note when amending. I think we can conclude our arguments right here since the important thing is going to be modified. As for the teaching, I prefer actively finding out what knowledge the student lacks by myself (no matter if he/she asked me or not), while you prefer a more passive way. I understand, since I've never taught a whole class while (I think) you have, so reasonably the more passive way is preferred due to too many students.


2015 charter and ISML are supposed to be better, right?
Image
User avatar
Chocola
Hikarin's Kitty
Hikarin's Kitty
Posts: 7457
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:31 am
Worships: Kousaka Reina
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: Hikachu to not hate me

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Chocola » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:21 am

Special note could happen, since we have to fix the charter anyways, which means it's a good thing you brought that up. It's strange we had the same clause for 2013 and 2014 then changed it this year.

And yeah, tutoring is different since you know what the student is lacking just from how they attempt to solve the problem. A classroom environment is much different.
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
MAL Ratings ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki
A tall, towering wall looms in front of me. Beyond that is something that I could never to see on my own.
And that is...the view from the top.
User avatar
minhtam1638
Phantom
Phantom
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:50 am
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: An endless supply of Coca-Cola. Tax free.
Location: Bridgeport, Connecticut

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by minhtam1638 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:35 am

Homura wrote:
Kholdy wrote:
Homura wrote:maglor you pointed that out such late. Oh I didn't mention that in the nomination instruction thread I made for Shana. Also yesterday, I just saw an ISML regular voter in Baidu tieba said he had only nominated the characters he thought had trouble passing the nomination...
The thing is, it has always been this way. This isn't some new rule. Prelims were always seeded by nomination count ever since ISML had prelims. maglor just gave us a reminder that shouldn't be needed at all.
To be honest, I'm a bit surprised by the reactions showed by you and minty. If I've remembered correctly, minty is going to become a math teacher probably this year or next year, and Kholdy you will very likely work in math education field in the future. Just add a bit more info about me here. Being a good student myself, I've helped many my classmates study throughout the past years. In general, I like to teach people how to learn, and to be a teacher or to work for education is always something I would like to do. What I want to point out here is that we three have similar life goals, and we're not supposed to act very differently toward this issue. Unfortunately, we are.

You and minty said nothing wrong. I think I should restate this first. However, the problem is both you have missed the critical point. Right, people are stupid because they are expected to know that Nomination serves for the upcoming Preliminary, and the fact that Preliminary seeding and group placements are heavily based on the nomination rank is not that hard to see. But let's think about a question here. What is the duty for teacher/educator/people who have more knowledge? I think the answer is to help people who lack knowledge to learn those things they're supposed to know, instead of just standing on the side. Isn't this what a educator ought to do? Let me put this more straightforwardly. Even though there isn't some new rule and people should pay for their stupidity by themselves, it's still ISML staff's duty to make the importance of nomination rank clear each year since it's never clear to many people (especially new voters). ISML staff are the people having the most knowledge of the rules, and that's the way you educate people with less knowledge, no matter if the things are obvious or not.
Your point is correct in that yes, educators should be helping people who lack the knowledge to learn those things they're supposed to know. There's no debate on that. However, you're conclusion based off of that is absolutely incorrect. It's not the Staff's job to teach people how to play in our tournament. It's to host the tournament, and provide the people who choose to play with the minimum knowledge that they need to play in the tournament. That's it.

Think of it this way. I, as a math teacher, go through the ins and outs of teaching my class, figuring out where their zone of proximal development is and fine tuning my curriculum in order to help them grow as students. But, as a math teacher, I do have to give out tests to evaluate. And when students ask me how to do this problem or that problem, can I help them? Not if their question is related to a core concept that is being tested. After all, say I'm asking students to solve 4x + 9 = 17 on an exam. Am I going to just write a big old sign saying "Oh, by the way, first you subtract 9 and then divide by 4!"? Of course not, because it's an exam, and I've already taught my students how to solve this kind of problem.

Every year, the ISML Staff hosts this competition we like to call the International Saimoe League. And every year, we throw out the rules and regulations in advance before the competition starts. If the voters want to take ISML seriously, it's their responsibility to understand the rules and regulations and come up with a plan on what they want to do. If the voters ask us to clarify the rules or give them tips on what to do first, of course we are happy to help. But if they don't, and end up with their own misconceptions of how the contest works without confirming with us whether their assumptions are true or not, then they have to pay the consequences of it. And except for you and smartboy and Magnux and a few other handful of people that hang around in this forum, nobody ever asks, and that's a HUGE majority that doesn't. This is why characters like Celestia Ludenberg can get in while Ayana Keiko gets left out, because of some stupid assumption of "Oh, all of the Sword Art Online weebs are going to nominate her, so I'll save my nomination for someone else" without looking into the history of nominations to find list after list of popular characters shockingly get left out. (And don't say we didn't provide it: all the nomination data from 2009 onward is accessible through the ISML website.)
Image
User avatar
Homura
[Apprentice Magician]
[Apprentice Magician]
Posts: 3071
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:25 am
Badges:
Melon Pan: 55
2020 Female Favorite: Shiina Mashiro
2020 Male Favorite: Lelouch Lamperouge
2019 Female Favorite: Makise Kurisu
2019 Male Favorite: Levi
2018 Female Favorite: Makise Kurisu
2018 Male Favorite: Yukihira Sōma
Location: China

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Homura » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:10 am

Sorry minty, I'm not going to argue anymore on that topic. As you've typed a lot, I'll simply accept them all.

However, there is another thing I need to point out. Though you're not a staff anymore, your always holding the attitude that if it's a decision made by current staff, then you'll accept it anyway at the end is dangerous. Of course you can say not anyway, if the decision is wrong by common sense, then you'll resist to the end. However, I don't think that will happen unless you really change. The upcoming long run is able to prove my correctness. You can make a record for what I said today. By the way, if I hadn't argued with Kholdy today, then would that part of 2015 charter be modified soon? No, if I had as well taken your attitude.

I know this sounds probably extremely annoying, but I do think that is a useful suggestion for you.
Image
User avatar
Chocola
Hikarin's Kitty
Hikarin's Kitty
Posts: 7457
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:31 am
Worships: Kousaka Reina
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: Hikachu to not hate me

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Chocola » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:49 am

Basically what minty wants to say is that the staff is not obligated to tell people to pay attention to nomination rank, because that would be the staff imposing "voting strategies" to the voters. Instead, the staff's role is only to set up a basic eligibility system, and any other influence on "voting strategies" would be excessive.

The staff currently has no comment on this view.
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
MAL Ratings ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki
A tall, towering wall looms in front of me. Beyond that is something that I could never to see on my own.
And that is...the view from the top.
User avatar
Homura
[Apprentice Magician]
[Apprentice Magician]
Posts: 3071
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:25 am
Badges:
Melon Pan: 55
2020 Female Favorite: Shiina Mashiro
2020 Male Favorite: Lelouch Lamperouge
2019 Female Favorite: Makise Kurisu
2019 Male Favorite: Levi
2018 Female Favorite: Makise Kurisu
2018 Male Favorite: Yukihira Sōma
Location: China

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Homura » Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:02 am

@Kholdy That paragraph of my post was not focusing on what he said in this thread. Let me make it clear. I typed out what I had been leaning to say to him for a couple of months, which is a general speaking.
Image
User avatar
tachimegun
Flame haze
Flame haze
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:09 am
Melon Pan: 50
Location: In the bottom of your heart

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by tachimegun » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:44 am

>all these tl;dr
Let me just put this here
nominationsShow
Image
SpoilerShow
The Game
User avatar
Team Rocket Elite
Moon princess
Moon princess
Posts: 3211
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:43 am
Badges:
Image
Worships: Bernkastel
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: dried plums to go with the tea.

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Team Rocket Elite » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:49 am

I don't think seeding really matters that much. I guess the preliminary format is a bit different this year but I feel like in the past the preliminaries have done a good job getting the strongest characters in regardless of their initial seed and it's not like Miyauchi Renge had a low seed last year.
A miracle that you believe in when you know it won't happen......... is hope.
User avatar
minhtam1638
Phantom
Phantom
Posts: 740
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:50 am
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: An endless supply of Coca-Cola. Tax free.
Location: Bridgeport, Connecticut

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by minhtam1638 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:44 am

First off, #Kholdy #6000posts #hype
Homura wrote:Sorry minty, I'm not going to argue anymore on that topic. As you've typed a lot, I'll simply accept them all.

However, there is another thing I need to point out. Though you're not a staff anymore, your always holding the attitude that if it's a decision made by current staff, then you'll accept it anyway at the end is dangerous. Of course you can say not anyway, if the decision is wrong by common sense, then you'll resist to the end. However, I don't think that will happen unless you really change. The upcoming long run is able to prove my correctness. You can make a record for what I said today. By the way, if I hadn't argued with Kholdy today, then would that part of 2015 charter be modified soon? No, if I had as well taken your attitude.

I know this sounds probably extremely annoying, but I do think that is a useful suggestion for you.
If that's the impression that I've been giving off as of late, then I apologize, because that's actually not entirely true.

Let's go back to six months ago when, after Kotori defeated Mashiro for the Heavenly Tiara, Kholdy announced that previous Tiara winners will no longer be eligible for the regular season and the postseason, beginning this year. When I first found out about this, I was absolutely furious (and obviously I wasn't the only one), because I created the International Saimoe League to showcase the best of the best female anime characters of all time. So if Kanade and/or Mikoto won a second Tiara, so be it, and if they struggle in winning that second Tiara, so be it. If they wanted to continue their legacy despite being previous Tiara winners by knocking every new competitor to the ground, so be it. So I thought. Thus, from my perspective, from my common sense, barring previous Tiara winners was, as I thought at the time, "downright discriminatory and absolute bull****". So I ended up writing a four to five paragraph rant as to why I would never support the removal of any character from competing in the International Saimoe League regular season "for as long as I live." I never hit the submit button.

But let's say in theory that in some parallel universe, I did. What would happen? Considering the staff was resolute in restoring legitimacy to the final Tiara tournament, what would happen is that they would make a solid rebuttal from their standpoint as to how it supports what their intentions, but I would just retort back saying how it goes against my original intentions for the International Saimoe League. So we would go back and forth, and what would probably end up happening is that the forum boards turn into some stupid flame war between myself (and probably the Mikoto/Kanade fanbase if they were around) and the Staff, and the end result would probably be that I get banned from the forum boards, blocked from viewing the website, and the Tiara winners would still be heading to the Tournament of Champions and thus blocked from competing in the regular season. Now if that were to happen, whose fault would it be? If after all of that mess, you still say that it's the Staff's fault that you got banned for saying what you thought was common sense, then you have learned absolutely nothing and are unable to develop any form of higher thinking.

That's why it's so important that when dealing with the decisions that you did not make, you must always consider the perspective of the person or group of people who made that decision. Always ask the question: does that decision make sense from their perspective? And by extension, does that decision ultimately support what they are trying to do in the bigger picture?

Let's go back to how I ultimately handled the Tournament of Champions situation. Having deleted the rant that I spent an hour to write (thank God, nobody saw it), I first proposed an alternative option to the two that the Staff presented, which took the perspectives of both the Staff and the concerned individuals who worried about the future of ISML. As I worked with the community to find a solution that works for everyone, I slept on it, continued to think about it, and try to reason out why the removal of the Tiara winners was necessary. Of course, it never made sense from my original perspective and my 2008 common sense, but once I started thinking about it from their perspective, and their common sense, I got it. Within a day, I understood it. And as a result, I was able to grow even more as a human being. And when I saw that there were people who still did not see it from a staff perspective, I wrote what I wrote so that they would understand too.

So while yes, you are correct in the sense that if the decision is wrong by common sense, then you should resist to the end, you have to realize that common sense is different for each individual. While something can make perfect sense to you, it may not make perfect sense to someone else. And the converse is also true - It may make sense to someone else, but not to you. Hence, in order to truly understand and move forward as an individual, you need to look at things from different perspectives, and only then will you ever have appreciation for other people. And only if you look from that other person's perspective to find that it still shouldn't make sense to them do you have a license to resist to the end. It's a lesson that I had to learn the hard way several years ago, not just in ISML related matters but in my own life in general, but I'm happy I'm able to apply it today.
Image
User avatar
Homura
[Apprentice Magician]
[Apprentice Magician]
Posts: 3071
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:25 am
Badges:
Melon Pan: 55
2020 Female Favorite: Shiina Mashiro
2020 Male Favorite: Lelouch Lamperouge
2019 Female Favorite: Makise Kurisu
2019 Male Favorite: Levi
2018 Female Favorite: Makise Kurisu
2018 Male Favorite: Yukihira Sōma
Location: China

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Homura » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:53 am

I feel I need to apologize first. Common sense is a wrong phrase to be used there. I got trapped by the typical way of using the phrase common sense in my language. I should have been more careful with the wording. I agree with all your writing, and the main idea you want to show to me is exactly what I believe in too. Moreover, we went through very similar thinking processes regarding that Tournament of Champion thing, and both ended with supporting the staff's decision. Hence, there is nothing I want to argue. I'm sorry for your long typing, but the good thing is that gave more understanding.


... ...Okay, I deleted a very long paragraph which explained what I really wanted to say several hours ago. The reason is I'm feeling for now that is not important anymore. There are certain situations that things can be done better by the ISML staff (e.g. today's wording improvement for 2015 charter). I wish one day you would be able to point out one yourself, and then insist on your suggestion.

That is the most simplified version of the thought I intended to convey to you.
Image
User avatar
Kordosa
Soul gem
Soul gem
Posts: 4073
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:35 am
Worships: Moriya Suwako's hat
Melon Pan: 50
2019 Female Favorite: Sakurajima Mai
2019 Male Favorite: Eugeo
2018 Female Favorite: Yamada Elf
2018 Male Favorite: Willem Kmetsch
Wish: A third season of Spice and Wolf.
Location: Mississippi, USA
Contact:

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Kordosa » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:34 pm

I just dropped by to post my nominations (better late than never!). And yeah, I know many of them probably won't make it...
Nova and Stella NominationsShow
Male NominationsShow
Winter NominationsShow
Also, I got a negative captcha, which I don't think I've ever gotten before:

Image

I had assumed captchas would only ever have a positve integer as an answer.
QuotesShow
Cirno wrote:*sinister laugh* Winning by only 47 votes is all part of my master plan. Now everyone will think I'm weak when, in fact, I'm the strongest. And then, when they least expect it, I'll strike back and take over the entire ISML. It's foolproof. Hahahaha, I'm such a genius!
Crisu wrote:And, of course, never merge an anti-cookie with a normal cookie. Serious consequence will occur.
shiraoky wrote:I'm always squeeing lol.
Metaler wrote:Seriously, if you're gonna do something badly, then don't bother doing it. It's like when you take a dump: you don't show it to other people specifically because it's shit!
Kordosa wrote:Protip: If a male high school student character is voiced by a female seiyuu, there is a 100% probability that that character will be forced to crossdress at some point.
User avatar
Chocola
Hikarin's Kitty
Hikarin's Kitty
Posts: 7457
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:31 am
Worships: Kousaka Reina
Melon Pan: 50
Wish: Hikachu to not hate me

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Chocola » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:38 pm

Yes, captcha answers can now be negative. We think you guys can handle it. :D
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
MAL Ratings ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki
A tall, towering wall looms in front of me. Beyond that is something that I could never to see on my own.
And that is...the view from the top.
User avatar
Kiwigiwi
[Apteryx mantelli]
[Apteryx mantelli]
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:21 pm
Badges:
ImageImageImageImage
Worships: Death
Melon Pan: 81
Wish: For people to stop taking advantage of me

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Kiwigiwi » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:44 pm

The captcha is a good way to practice mental math sums

♡ Secret Santa Daisuki ♡
SecretsShow
Image
Image
Image
Image
♫ Much love to my secret santa of 2016 ♥
User avatar
Kordosa
Soul gem
Soul gem
Posts: 4073
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:35 am
Worships: Moriya Suwako's hat
Melon Pan: 50
2019 Female Favorite: Sakurajima Mai
2019 Male Favorite: Eugeo
2018 Female Favorite: Yamada Elf
2018 Male Favorite: Willem Kmetsch
Wish: A third season of Spice and Wolf.
Location: Mississippi, USA
Contact:

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Kordosa » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:44 pm

Kholdy wrote:Yes, captcha answers can now be negative. We think you guys can handle it. :D
That's good to know. I have nothing to worry about with the catpchas now then. :bigsmile:
QuotesShow
Cirno wrote:*sinister laugh* Winning by only 47 votes is all part of my master plan. Now everyone will think I'm weak when, in fact, I'm the strongest. And then, when they least expect it, I'll strike back and take over the entire ISML. It's foolproof. Hahahaha, I'm such a genius!
Crisu wrote:And, of course, never merge an anti-cookie with a normal cookie. Serious consequence will occur.
shiraoky wrote:I'm always squeeing lol.
Metaler wrote:Seriously, if you're gonna do something badly, then don't bother doing it. It's like when you take a dump: you don't show it to other people specifically because it's shit!
Kordosa wrote:Protip: If a male high school student character is voiced by a female seiyuu, there is a 100% probability that that character will be forced to crossdress at some point.
User avatar
arthur_xx
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:49 pm
Melon Pan: 50
Location: Fuyuki

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by arthur_xx » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:56 pm

My nomination:

Image
User avatar
Kiwigiwi
[Apteryx mantelli]
[Apteryx mantelli]
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 3:21 pm
Badges:
ImageImageImageImage
Worships: Death
Melon Pan: 81
Wish: For people to stop taking advantage of me

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by Kiwigiwi » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:06 pm

It seems like the first post for someone. Welcome good sir!

♡ Secret Santa Daisuki ♡
SecretsShow
Image
Image
Image
Image
♫ Much love to my secret santa of 2016 ♥
User avatar
arthur_xx
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:49 pm
Melon Pan: 50
Location: Fuyuki

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by arthur_xx » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:07 pm

Homura wrote:I feel I need to apologize first. Common sense is a wrong phrase to be used there. I got trapped by the typical way of using the phrase common sense in my language.
My first time coming to this forum, and see your mistake. I disagree with this. Did you mess up common sense with fact? I guess that's it. That is just your way of using Chinese, please.
Some old stuffShow
Did you remember that high school math class, where you were solving that complex question on the board? You did all right except you thought 13 x 3 = 29 LOL
It's nice to see your style hasn't changed: 99% precision + 1% stupidity. my classmate~
User avatar
arthur_xx
Ninja
Ninja
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:49 pm
Melon Pan: 50
Location: Fuyuki

Re: 2015 Nomination Plan Thread

Post by arthur_xx » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:07 pm

Kurogarasu wrote:It seems like the first post for someone. Welcome good sir!
Oh thx~
Locked