Prelims I-2 - 2 February

[Ahasuerus]

I dunno... I find it difficult to NOT vote for a girl even if she's sure to finish last, like Chihiro or Yuuko; as long as she's the most moe of the three to me is really all that matters.

Although this year I'm going to loosen up and vote for a "favorite" over a "most moe" since everybody else seems to (to say the least); like Shiki (not so moe) over say Tsukasa (lotsa moe). Since this IS a moe contest, I felt "guilty" about doing that in past ISMLs, but this year screw it But old habits die hard...

For some people Shiki may be very moe, while Tsukasa can be not so moe. I'm not much into moe in any of the two, but at least feels a bit more moe from Shiki than Tsukasa. Each person have their own moe, differents things that makes them feel moe from a character. And, all in all, moe is a likeable feeling, so "moe" and "like" can't be totally separated either.

Well, it seems to me that over the last several years the original meaning of moe has become somewhat changed around to include those girls with traits not traditionally associated with moe. When, for instance, you measure Tsukasa and Shiki against one another (as in a tournament), Tsukasa has much more of the traditional definitions of moe traits, while Shiki's may not proportionately measure up. I *love* Shiki, but really, it wasn't until her *blush* at the end of movie 5 (or 6?) that made me feel it for her.

But yeah, moe means different things to different people; I'll grant you that. I've always defined it from the simplified wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;), but it's an ever-evolving definition, apparently

[acejem]

But yeah, moe means different things to different people; I'll grant you that. I've always defined it from the simplified wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;), but it's an ever-evolving definition, apparently

Same with the meaning of tsundere. Initially it was the Naru Narusegawa (Love Hina)/Kugimiya Rie model... now you have people like Sheryl Nome (Macross Frontier), Horo (Spice and Wolf) and even Senjougahara (Baekmonogatari) being labelled as one, with the latter even calling herself one.

[Blue Neko]

ARENA 01	-	Shiina Minatsu	Kinomoto Sakura	Oshino Shinobu
ARENA 02	-	Saginomiya Isumi	Evangeline A.K. McDowell	Hanato Kobato
ARENA 03	-	Tsukamoto Yakumo	Haibara Ai	Ikeda Kana
ARENA 04	-	Suiseiseki	Nogizaka Haruka	Aizawa Sakuya
ARENA 05	-	Index Librorum Prohibitorum	Hanekawa Tsubasa	Furude Rika
ARENA 06	-	Akashiya Moka	Hoshina Utau	Mizunashi Akari
ARENA 07	-	Akaba Chizuru	Kawashima Ami	Segawa Izumi
ARENA 08	-	Kataoka Yūki	Alice Carroll	Shirai Kuroko
ARENA 09	-	Sawatari Makoto	Furude Hanyū	Hinamori Amu
ARENA 10	-	Shinku	Miyanaga Saki	Minase Nayuki
ARENA 11	-	Amamiya Yūko	Sheryl Nome	Saten Ruiko
ARENA 12	-	Teletha Testarossa	Sonozaki Mion	Minami Kana
ARENA 13	-	Misaka Mikoto	Tōyoko Momoko	Isurugi Noe
ARENA 14	-	Minami Chiaki	Misaka Shiori	Ushiromiya Ange
ARENA 15	-	Katagiri Yūhi	Illyasviel von Einzbern	Ayanami Rei
ARENA 16	-	Kotegawa Yui	Akiyama Mio	Kawasumi Mai
ARENA 17	-	Uiharu Kazari	Ryōgi Shiki	Yuno
ARENA 18	-	Felli Loss	Senō Natsuru	Ichinose Kotomi
ARENA 19	-	Sawachika Eri	Senjōgahara Hitagi	Kamio Misuzu
ARENA 20	-	Sanzen'in Nagi	Louise Vallière	Fujibayashi Ryō
ARENA 21	-	Winry Rockbell	Sōryū Asuka Langley	Kotobuki Tsumugi
ARENA 22	-	Hinaichigo	Shiina Mafuyu	Kurata Sayuri
ARENA 23	-	Sangō Shizuku	Takei Hisa	Lambdadelta
ARENA 24	-	Kusakabe Misuzu	Sonozaki Shion	Maria
ARENA 25	-	Niche	Sakurano Kurimu	Bernkastel
ARENA 26	-	Hiiragi Tsukasa	Ryūgū Rena	Lisa
ARENA 27	-	Kirishima Akari	Shindō Chihiro	Alice
ARENA 28	-	Chii	Suigintou	Yin
ARENA 29	-	Saber	Tainaka Ritsu	Nagi
ARENA 30	-	Tsukimiya Ayu	Ranka Lee	Furukawa Nagisa

[akumaxx]

...Maybe it's unwise to abstain on 2 chosen ones
Still difficult to check when all 3 are favourites

[Chocola]

If Horo is tsundere, then cheese grows on trees.

[chaosprophet]

Well, it seems to me that over the last several years the original meaning of moe has become somewhat changed around to include those girls with traits not traditionally associated with moe. When, for instance, you measure Tsukasa and Shiki against one another (as in a tournament), Tsukasa has much more of the traditional definitions of moe traits, while Shiki's may not proportionately measure up. I *love* Shiki, but really, it wasn't until her *blush* at the end of movie 5 (or 6?) that made me feel it for her.

I give you that. Indeed the "traditional" definition of moe was characters that acted cute, shy and the like. It's not for anything that characters like Mikuru are called a "moe blob", as she encompasses many of those traits of traditional moe.

But yeah, moe means different things to different people; I'll grant you that. I've always defined it from the simplified wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;), but it's an ever-evolving definition, apparently

In my opinion thought, I see moe as characters that make me involve emotionally with them. Characters who I feel sad when I see they sad and/or going through difficulty, characters that makes me cheer with them when they're able to overcome their challenges. It's characters who I seriously care about, who I sympathize with. So there are many different traits that can do that, whenever they're the traditional moe’s ones or not.

[Cytrus]

But yeah, moe means different things to different people; I'll grant you that. I've always defined it from the simplified wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;), but it's an ever-evolving definition, apparently

Same with the meaning of tsundere. Initially it was the Naru Narusegawa (Love Hina)/Kugimiya Rie model... now you have people like Sheryl Nome (Macross Frontier), Horo (Spice and Wolf) and even Senjougahara (Baekmonogatari) being labelled as one, with the latter even calling herself one.

The classical definition of tsundere referred to characters who appeared aloof or even hostile in the beginning of a story, but established a tender relationship by the end, showing a softer side. Senjougahara Hitagi is actually a good example of this, although her switch happens quite quickly.

The broadened definition plays off this bipolar attitude, but no longer requires it to be lasting or relationship-related. This is called neo-tsundere by those who wish to differentiate between the two. The most obvious neo-tsundere example is Hiiragi Kagami (with a section of her show even dedicated to discussing the 'tsundere' issue).

Notably, Kugumiya has voiced characters belonging to both these groups, with Shana (classical) and Sanzenin Nagi (modern) as good examples.

Horo being called tsundere might suggest that further broadening of the term is heading in the direction of "only shows true feelings in subtle ways, often putting on a front", but we'll see.

As for the definition of moe... there's a separate thread for that.

[ilkaid]

Damn I missed the vote My router picked a good time to die for 40odd hours

[ithekro]

Unless someone loses by one or there is a tie, you need not blame yourself.

[ilkaid]

Unless someone loses by one or there is a tie, you need not blame yourself.

You know its going to happen now that you've said it right?

[sirwence]

If Horo is tsundere, then cheese grows on trees.

Where is the cheese tree

But yes I would agree she isn't a tsundere- But I keep seeing her spoken of as such. That would require much broadening of the definition.

[ithekro]

That would make things very interesting when we have voting groups of 2,900 or more tie.

[maglor]

Let me say that the system for preliminary is designed to make any vote for any character count as much as possible, no matter what the matchup is nor which place the character finishes. You can never know how that 1 vote will affect the future seeding for your character in phase 2 and 3, and better the seed, easier the group in phase 2 and 3.

If Horo is tsundere, then cheese grows on trees.

Where is the cheese tree

But yes I would agree she isn't a tsundere- But I keep seeing her spoken of as such. That would require much broadening of the definition.

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[LiuXuande]

I think the appeal for Hitagi (at least personally) is the sheer fact that she recognizes her own moe, even to the extent of pointing it out, makes fun of it, and finds every way to fully exploit it. Pretty much I can't think of any other character that's done that, and to me that's awesome. So I wouldn't put her in any of the default archetypes

But in general, it looks like people prefer more "traditionally" moe characters like Mio that have the insta-appeal (granted I voted for her too lol). I'm hoping research, and the rise in popularity of Bakemonogatari change that

[bluemage]

In my opinion thought, I see moe as characters that make me involve emotionally with them. Characters who I feel sad when I see they sad and/or going through difficulty, characters that makes me cheer with them when they're able to overcome their challenges. It's characters who I seriously care about, who I sympathize with. So there are many different traits that can do that, whenever they're the traditional moe’s ones or not.

That is mostly how I vote for my characters too, though at times general popularity, tactical voting, and how cute the avatars are (very rarely do I do this though) influence my decisions as well. Sometimes it feels like I should abstain for a particular match-up because I don't really care about any of the characters or may not know enough about them, but I never bring myself to for reasons even I don't comprehend.

[Chocola]

Hiiragi Kagami is, in my opinion, not a tsundere. There isn't anyone for her to be tsun to, and there isn't anyone for her to be dere to. The plot of Lucky Star (what plot?) determines that Kagami can never be a tsundere.

[LiuXuande]

The series does a good job at hinting it being towards Konata though...or at times to the "mysterious secret admirer" she has (or that Konata makes fun of her for

[Chocola]

Yeah that's the thing. Kagami's tsundere exists in Konata's dreams~

[sirwence]

Yeah that's the thing. Kagami's tsundere exists in Konata's dreams~

The Tsundere dreams Konata has of Kagami and herself go something along these lines?

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