Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Nominations and other events occurring before the Main Tournament
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by Ahasuerus » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:00 am

chaosprophet wrote:
Ahasuerus wrote:I dunno... I find it difficult to NOT vote for a girl even if she's sure to finish last, like Chihiro or Yuuko; as long as she's the most moe of the three to me is really all that matters.

Although this year I'm going to loosen up and vote for a "favorite" over a "most moe" since everybody else seems to (to say the least); like Shiki (not so moe) over say Tsukasa (lotsa moe). Since this IS a moe contest, I felt "guilty" about doing that in past ISMLs, but this year screw it :lol: But old habits die hard... :cooltongue:
For some people Shiki may be very moe, while Tsukasa can be not so moe. I'm not much into moe in any of the two, but at least feels a bit more moe from Shiki than Tsukasa. Each person have their own moe, differents things that makes them feel moe from a character. And, all in all, moe is a likeable feeling, so "moe" and "like" can't be totally separated either.
Well, it seems to me that over the last several years the original meaning of moe has become somewhat changed around to include those girls with traits not traditionally associated with moe. When, for instance, you measure Tsukasa and Shiki against one another (as in a tournament), Tsukasa has much more of the traditional definitions of moe traits, while Shiki's may not proportionately measure up. I *love* Shiki, but really, it wasn't until her *blush* at the end of movie 5 (or 6?) that made me feel it for her.

But yeah, moe means different things to different people; I'll grant you that. I've always defined it from the simplified wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;), but it's an ever-evolving definition, apparently :lol:
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by acejem » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:05 am

Ahasuerus wrote:
But yeah, moe means different things to different people; I'll grant you that. I've always defined it from the simplified wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;), but it's an ever-evolving definition, apparently :lol:
Same with the meaning of tsundere. Initially it was the Naru Narusegawa (Love Hina)/Kugimiya Rie model... now you have people like Sheryl Nome (Macross Frontier), Horo (Spice and Wolf) and even Senjougahara (Baekmonogatari) being labelled as one, with the latter even calling herself one.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by Blue Neko » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:26 pm

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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by akumaxx » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:36 pm

...Maybe it's unwise to abstain on 2 chosen ones
Still difficult to check when all 3 are favourites
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by Chocola » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:57 pm

If Horo is tsundere, then cheese grows on trees.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by chaosprophet » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:04 pm

Ahasuerus wrote:Well, it seems to me that over the last several years the original meaning of moe has become somewhat changed around to include those girls with traits not traditionally associated with moe. When, for instance, you measure Tsukasa and Shiki against one another (as in a tournament), Tsukasa has much more of the traditional definitions of moe traits, while Shiki's may not proportionately measure up. I *love* Shiki, but really, it wasn't until her *blush* at the end of movie 5 (or 6?) that made me feel it for her.
I give you that. Indeed the "traditional" definition of moe was characters that acted cute, shy and the like. It's not for anything that characters like Mikuru are called a "moe blob", as she encompasses many of those traits of traditional moe.
Ahasuerus wrote:But yeah, moe means different things to different people; I'll grant you that. I've always defined it from the simplified wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;), but it's an ever-evolving definition, apparently :lol:
In my opinion thought, I see moe as characters that make me involve emotionally with them. Characters who I feel sad when I see they sad and/or going through difficulty, characters that makes me cheer with them when they're able to overcome their challenges. It's characters who I seriously care about, who I sympathize with. So there are many different traits that can do that, whenever they're the traditional moe’s ones or not.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by Cytrus » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:06 pm

acejem wrote:
Ahasuerus wrote:
But yeah, moe means different things to different people; I'll grant you that. I've always defined it from the simplified wiki article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang" onclick="window.open(this.href); return false;), but it's an ever-evolving definition, apparently :lol:
Same with the meaning of tsundere. Initially it was the Naru Narusegawa (Love Hina)/Kugimiya Rie model... now you have people like Sheryl Nome (Macross Frontier), Horo (Spice and Wolf) and even Senjougahara (Baekmonogatari) being labelled as one, with the latter even calling herself one.
The classical definition of tsundere referred to characters who appeared aloof or even hostile in the beginning of a story, but established a tender relationship by the end, showing a softer side. Senjougahara Hitagi is actually a good example of this, although her switch happens quite quickly.

The broadened definition plays off this bipolar attitude, but no longer requires it to be lasting or relationship-related. This is called neo-tsundere by those who wish to differentiate between the two. The most obvious neo-tsundere example is Hiiragi Kagami (with a section of her show even dedicated to discussing the 'tsundere' issue).

Notably, Kugumiya has voiced characters belonging to both these groups, with Shana (classical) and Sanzenin Nagi (modern) as good examples.

Horo being called tsundere might suggest that further broadening of the term is heading in the direction of "only shows true feelings in subtle ways, often putting on a front", but we'll see.

As for the definition of moe... there's a separate thread for that.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by ilkaid » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:41 pm

Damn I missed the vote :( My router picked a good time to die for 40odd hours
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by ithekro » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:46 pm

Unless someone loses by one or there is a tie, you need not blame yourself.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by ilkaid » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:48 pm

ithekro wrote:Unless someone loses by one or there is a tie, you need not blame yourself.
You know its going to happen now that you've said it right?
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by sirwence » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:53 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:If Horo is tsundere, then cheese grows on trees.
Where is the cheese tree :onion77:

But yes I would agree she isn't a tsundere- But I keep seeing her spoken of as such. That would require much broadening of the definition.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by ithekro » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:54 pm

That would make things very interesting when we have voting groups of 2,900 or more tie.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by maglor » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:55 pm

Let me say that the system for preliminary is designed to make any vote for any character count as much as possible, no matter what the matchup is nor which place the character finishes. You can never know how that 1 vote will affect the future seeding for your character in phase 2 and 3, and better the seed, easier the group in phase 2 and 3.
sirwence wrote:
KholdStare88 wrote:If Horo is tsundere, then cheese grows on trees.
Where is the cheese tree :onion77:

But yes I would agree she isn't a tsundere- But I keep seeing her spoken of as such. That would require much broadening of the definition.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by LiuXuande » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:20 pm

I think the appeal for Hitagi (at least personally) is the sheer fact that she recognizes her own moe, even to the extent of pointing it out, makes fun of it, and finds every way to fully exploit it. Pretty much I can't think of any other character that's done that, and to me that's awesome. So I wouldn't put her in any of the default archetypes :)

But in general, it looks like people prefer more "traditionally" moe characters like Mio that have the insta-appeal (granted I voted for her too lol). I'm hoping research, and the rise in popularity of Bakemonogatari change that :D
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by bluemage » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:28 pm

chaosprophet wrote:In my opinion thought, I see moe as characters that make me involve emotionally with them. Characters who I feel sad when I see they sad and/or going through difficulty, characters that makes me cheer with them when they're able to overcome their challenges. It's characters who I seriously care about, who I sympathize with. So there are many different traits that can do that, whenever they're the traditional moe’s ones or not.
That is mostly how I vote for my characters too, though at times general popularity, tactical voting, and how cute the avatars are (very rarely do I do this though) influence my decisions as well. Sometimes it feels like I should abstain for a particular match-up because I don't really care about any of the characters or may not know enough about them, but I never bring myself to for reasons even I don't comprehend.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by Chocola » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:27 pm

Hiiragi Kagami is, in my opinion, not a tsundere. There isn't anyone for her to be tsun to, and there isn't anyone for her to be dere to. The plot of Lucky Star (what plot?) determines that Kagami can never be a tsundere.
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by LiuXuande » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:10 pm

The series does a good job at hinting it being towards Konata though...or at times to the "mysterious secret admirer" she has (or that Konata makes fun of her for :P
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by Chocola » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:58 am

Yeah that's the thing. :P Kagami's tsundere exists in Konata's dreams~
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Re: Prelims I-2 - 2 February

Post by sirwence » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:18 pm

KholdStare88 wrote:Yeah that's the thing. :P Kagami's tsundere exists in Konata's dreams~
The Tsundere dreams Konata has of Kagami and herself go something along these lines?
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